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Joe_Tucholski

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Best architect without published writings?
« on: July 17, 2012, 02:14:58 AM »
I’m not going to go as far as saying in order to be known as a great architect you must have your writing published but since the late 1800’s it seems to be the case. 

So who is the best architect without significant published writings (you can decide what is significant)?  You get bonus points if the architect you list is no longer living.

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2012, 02:33:59 AM »
Alex Russell
Royal Melbourne West co-architect, sole architect RM East, Yarra Yarra, Lake Karrinyup, Paraparaumu Beach.
Absolutely zero published writings on golf architecture. You can glean some of his philosophy from some of the reports he wrote for his clients though.

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2012, 06:58:03 AM »
Spot On Neil. It's got to be Russell. Such a shame he never felt the compulsion to jot down some musings for future generations.
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Tom MacWood

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2012, 07:05:14 AM »
I don't believe Raynor wrote anything. Perhaps he thought CBM had said it all, but that didn't stop Banks, who wrote a hell of a lot.

To my knowledge Stanley Thompson didn't write anything either. Anything written by Thompson & Jones was most likely written by Jones.

I have not found anything written by Strong, Watson or Abercromby. There are quite a few who did not write about golf architecture.

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2012, 09:46:24 AM »
Did OTM do any writing?

Tyler Kearns

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2012, 11:04:05 AM »
I don't believe Raynor wrote anything. Perhaps he thought CBM had said it all, but that didn't stop Banks, who wrote a hell of a lot.

To my knowledge Stanley Thompson didn't write anything either. Anything written by Thompson & Jones was most likely written by Jones.

I have not found anything written by Strong, Watson or Abercromby. There are quite a few who did not write about golf architecture.

Tom,

I seem to remember Thompson had published a small booklet on golf course architecture. I can't remember the title at present, but I'll check on it.

TK

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2012, 05:51:32 PM »
I haven't seen enough of William Langford's work to nominate him for the best in this class, but he did some excellent work and to my knowledge never published anything.  In fact, he didn't even contribute a drawing or photo to George Thomas' book, which a lot of lesser-known architects [like Willie Watson and Stanley Thompson] did do, making their names vaguely familiar to me when I was starting to explore old courses.

Among modern architects, Bill Coore has not written nearly enough.

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2012, 06:02:33 PM »
It appears there are more notable architects than I thought who had no intention of publishing their writing.

Tom,

I seem to remember Thompson had published a small booklet on golf course architecture. I can't remember the title at present, but I'll check on it.

TK

Thompson wrote "Courses: Their Construction and Upkeep"

I have not found anything written by Strong, Watson or Abercromby. There are quite a few who did not write about golf architecture.

Abercrombie is listed as having an essay published in Aspects of Golf Course Architecture compiled and written by Fred Hawtree.


I don't believe Raynor wrote anything. 

Any of the Raynor society folks seen Mountain Lake, Florida : a private park of thirty-five hundred acres in the beautiful ridge and lake country, with residential club- house and eighteen-hole golf course..  It looks like there are copies at the Duke University Library and also the Canadian Centre for Architecture library.  It's listed as a 32 page book written by Frederick Law Olmsted and Seth J Raynor published by Lord Baltimore Press.  Not sure if it is writings or simply the construction plans.


Did OTM do any writing?

I believe he has writings/letters published in the numerous books about him.


Among modern architects, Bill Coore has not written nearly enough.

Agree a full book would be great reading.  He does well w/ forewords.

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2012, 06:06:16 PM »
So the real question I was thinking about was whether writing a book increases the value of the architects design philosophies/designs or is it the architect has valued design philosophies/designs that deserve to be published?

The obvious answer is probably a bit of both, does anyone disagree?  Does publishing have no impact on perceptions of the given architects designs?

Jeffrey Prest

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2012, 06:30:47 PM »
An interesting thread, this but just to narrow down the scope of the original question - and I'm thinking here of those fly fishermen who get very cagey about letting others see too much of their 'killer' fly designs - how many non-published architects do you suppose preferred it that way, rather than handing too many trade secrets over to their peers?

The all-time Most Paranoid Architect, is what I guess I'm driving at...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2012, 06:40:43 PM »
So the real question I was thinking about was whether writing a book increases the value of the architects design philosophies/designs or is it the architect has valued design philosophies/designs that deserve to be published?

The obvious answer is probably a bit of both, does anyone disagree?  Does publishing have no impact on perceptions of the given architects designs?

Joe:

The answer to your first question depends on who it is.

The answer to your last question is that publishing a book almost always increases someone's stature in any field, including golf course architecture.  It's a big reason why Colt, MacKenzie, Macdonald, Tom Simpson and especially George Thomas are better known than some of their contemporaries ... like Hugh Alison or John Morrison [I'm not even sure I have his first name right], who were partners with Colt and MacKenzie.

A lot of the reason architects publish is to become better known and hopefully increase their workload and their fees ... well, that and the fact that most of us are egomaniacs ;) .

Tom MacWood

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2012, 06:41:50 AM »
Thompson produced a pamphlet, but there is nothing about architecture in it. There is a brief section on the history of the game and the rest is devoted to maintenance and upkeep. Thompson & Jones produced another pamphlet, and there is some architecture in it, but based on its similarity to articles written by Jones for Golfdom around the same time period I'm pretty sure RTJ wrote it.

The essay in Aspects of Golf Course Architecture is about Abercromby, but it is written by Charles Ambrose.

Langford produced a pamphlet too - Golf Course Architecture, and its pretty interesting. It was a compilation of articles he wrote on the subject in 1915 for The Golfer magazine.

Tom MacWood

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 07:06:17 AM »
From a letter to the editor of Golf magazine, 12/1890:

Sir,
I see in your last issue that a gentleman (by name of Mr.Stevens) is anxious to get a little information regarding laying out a Golf links. I hope you will allow me space in your valuable golfing paper to answer the question as far a as possible.

1. As to the length and breadth of links. If you have so many miles of ground you can put holes down at, say, from 100 to 550 yards, varying them accordingly. The breadth may be from 50 to 100 yards.

2. Regarding the probable cost of preparing it. If the putting-greens had to be laid out, it would require £5 for each green. then, if the course had to be cleared of gorse bushes of whins it would likely cost about £200.

3. Regarding the third question, the best way to form a club would be to get as many of your friends together as possible, and form a club; then advertise that such a club has been instituted. As to subscription, the scale of the club entry money runs from 2s, 6d to £10.

4. There is no necessity to have trees on a Golf course; large sand pits dug in the course called bunkers or a whin or two serve as a hazard to all players.

5. With reference to this last inquiry, it would entirely depend upon what the rental of ground was, and whether it was depriving the landlord or tenant of any pasturage which he may have let.

I may state in conclusion that if the putting -greens require to be laid with turf, this is the best time of year, provided the ground is moist so as to let the turf get hold.

I am, Sir, &c.,
Tom Morris

BCrosby

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2012, 08:40:09 AM »
Tom MacW -

I recall an article Herb Stong co-wrote for the British GI. I'll try to dig it out of my files.

How much did Dick Wilson write?

More generally, it is striking how few first rank golf architects during the Golden Age didn't publish.  

Bob

« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 09:47:16 AM by BCrosby »

Josh Tarble

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 09:45:21 AM »
Has Pete Dye written anything? 

Jason Topp

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 11:33:23 AM »
Has Pete Dye written anything? 

Bury Me in a Pot Bunker

Josh Tarble

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2012, 11:53:46 AM »
Has Pete Dye written anything? 

Bury Me in a Pot Bunker

Ah yes, I was thinking that was more of a biography than an architectural point of view...but I guess you can't really separate the two.

Tom MacWood

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Re: Best architect without published writings?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 11:54:44 AM »
Bob
I'm pretty certain Strong didn't write for any British golf publications. In fact although he was British I doubt many in Britain even knew who he was. He was more or less a journeyman when he came to America in the 1900s.

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