[Sebonac]

With regard to playing 13 from the left/back of 12.  You have to consider that you are putting at risk those teeing off on 14.

[jkinney]

Sebonac -- Good point about 14's tee, and thanks for pointing out to Pat that he'd forgotten that there were two right side tees on Punchbowl.

[Patrick_Mucci]

With regard to playing 13 from the left/back of 12.  You have to consider that you are putting at risk those teeing off on 14.


Sebonac,

They are far less at risk than those teeing off on the right side tee at # 13 from those playing # 12, so the trade off is a vast improvement when it comes to safety, don't you think ?

JKinney,

I didn't forget it, or that there are two tees on the left side, it just looked like the grass on the tee nearest the green was a different color and height due to some treatment it might be getting.  The footpad remains

This brings up an interesting issue.

A new, longer tee at # 3 which would bring the cross bunker and the decisions associated with it back into play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat...the right green tee is not there anymore.  It was removed over the winter. 

The footpad is still there, it's just not mowed to tee height.
I thought it was being treated and rested for some reason, but the landform remains

There were always two tees on that side.  The one closer to the 15th green and closer to the pond was the Green tee...and the one further back and to towards Bullshead Bay was the usual Red tee.  Now the one that is further back and to the right is the only tee on that side.  That would be what you played from if you played from that side.  Bill did a pretty good job of disguising the tee that was removed after 85+ years.

Agreed, but, the remaining tee is still very close to the green and with that hogback fairway with awkward lies and those fairway bunkers, still within the wheelhouse of errant golf shots.

[jkinney]

Pat - I don't think there's much room for lengthening Alps' tee without getting too close for comfort up against the bottom bowl collection area for tee shots on Sahara. But I'll walk it off mid July and get back to you. You make a good point about lengthening Shinny. Architectural features in fairway landing areas should remain in play and not simply be hit over by flat bellies, IMO.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKinney,

I remember playing # 3 when challenging the right side of the diagonal fairway cross bunker took a good deal of consideration.
I remember seeing good players not carrying the high right side.

Today, almost everyone flies it at the Singles.

It would seem a shame to see such a great bunker become a vestigial feature.

Most don't tee off on # 2 until # 2 green is cleared, unless there's a good headwind.
Why not put a tee near where the cart path starts between the two bunkers on the right, OR even construct a tee to the right, the far right of the 2nd green ?

So many tees and greens are purely constructed at NGLA, why not preserve the function of the huge cross bunker on # 3 by adding a constructed tee ?

Where there's a will, there's a way.

With regard to # 18 and a tee to the North of the entrance road, the environmental issue isn't wetlands, per se, but the 200 foot offset from BullsHead Bay.
I looked at the South side of the road by the gate at length over the last four days and there's plenty of room to construct a slightly elevated tee, probably 8 yards by 8 yards.  It would dramatically improve the play of the hole for the long ball hitter.

It would bring the huge left side fairway bunker back into play off the tee shot and equally as important, make the DZ the original steeply sloped area to the right, making the second shot dramatically more difficult, as CBM intended it, rather that the flatter surface beyond the huge left side fairway bunker.  The skyline effect is spectacular from that location.  And, with a few more trees removed/trimmed, by the new chipping green behind # 18 green, that hole would regain its majesty and challenge for the best amateur golfers in the world.

Take a look on Google Earth and take a look when you next visit in July.

I should be back in late July and we can compare notes.

In discussing SHCC and NGLA with a number of golfers over the weekend, the conclusion seemed to be that par was harder to make at SHCC but that Double Bogey was easier to make at NGLA.

Is the former purely a function of yardage ?

[jkinney]

Pat - I'll walk back to the Macdonald gate to look at your proposed tee location for 18 and will also look at Alps for the same purpose. Interesting concepts.

As to Shinny, par is harder than at National because driver placement is more exacting due to the deep fescue and because the greens are generally more convex with large shaved dropoff areas, not just because the course is longer. I also find that double bogey hits my scorecard more at Shiiny, though I can easily see why players would feel National's 350 bunkers and massive greens would produce explosions from greenside bunkers followed by three putts, leading to doubly bogey.

Generally speaking, a shot missed is a shot lost at Shinny, where at National that is less often the case - at least in my experience.

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