The Highlands of Elgin Oct. 17 (Pics Added)

[Sven Nilsen]

Thoroughly enjoyed the outing, despite Andrew and George hitting everything they looked at from 35 feet and in.  Thought the course was alot of fun, and would definitely make the trip back out to play it again.

Here's a hole by hole matchup of Highlands v. Shepherd's Crook

1 - HoE - both holes allow for a gentle start to the round, but I think the hole at SC is too short to compete.  It does win points for a more interesting green.
2 - HoE - the par 5 presents more strategic options than the par 4 at SC.  Again, the green at SC is a bit more interesting.
3 - HoE - two great short par 4's that can play fairly similar.  I think the width of the fairway and the myriad of options off of the tee swing the hole to HoE.
4 - SC - the par 3 at HoE was interesting, but the 240 yarder at SC is all Chicagoland and a great ground game hole.
5 - SC - one of my favorite holes at SC.  I found the par 4 at HoE to be a little disjointed.  Perhaps it grows on you with repeated playes.
6 - HoE - probably my favorite hole at HoE, really like the risk reward nature of the drive and the blind approach when going at it in 2 (or 3 if you duff your second).  Both holes have solid greens, but the bold features of HoE win out over the subtleness of the punch bowl at SC.
7 - SC - SC's most strategic hole.  Options off of the tee to set up your approach to a shallow green.  HoE's long par 3 was compelling, but I've seen that hole before.
8 - HoE - a very cool short par 4 vs. SC's least interesting par 3.  Even though I played it like an idiot, the nod goes to HoE.
9 - SC - the par 4 at HoE really reminded me of the 10th at SC.  However, it doesn't measure up to the par 5 at SC which has strategic options galore.
10 - SC - agree with Chris that the 10th at HoE seemed crammed in.  After playing to so many wide fairways, this hole seemed out of place.
11 - HoE - Tough matchup.  I really like the par 3 at SC which plays extremely different depending on wind direction.  The demanding nature of HoE's par 4 wins out.
12 - SC - Thought there was something missing on the 12th at HoE.  The short par 4 at SC has a ton of quirk, including blindness, internal fairway hazards and split fairways, a massive speed slot, drivability for the bombers and a great green complex.
13 - SC - I'll let others who have played these two chime in, but 13 at SC is my favorite par 4 on the course.
14 - SC - battle of the par 5's.  The hole at SC plays like a stretched out version of the 12th at HoE and works much better in my opinion as the burn is placed in a better position to challenge a second shot and is not quite as penal.  I like the uphill nature of the hole at HoE, but it loses out on the challenging nature of its rival.
15 - SC - My least favorite par 3 at HoE v. an uphill par 4 to a skyline green.
16 - HoE - I really like the short par 3 at SC, but I think the 400+ yarder at HoE is a good test, mostly due to the hazard lurking on the right side.
17 - SC - dogleg par to a green nestled in a grove of trees v. an exposed par 3.  I'll give it to SC by a slight margin.
18 - HoE - although I like 18 at SC alot, I found HoE's closing hole to be a solid test replete with options - layup short of the bunkers or try to sling a draw up the left to gain a shorter approach from a more difficult angle.  Both holes have a perched green, but I like the open nature of HoE's that would allow a long low shot to climb up the slope, or not if the execution was lacking.

I've got it 10-8 SC. 

[Jud_T]

Sven,

Good match-up which I generally agree with.  However, while the 17th at HOE is not particularly memorable it easily beats the 17th at SC, which IMHO is the worst hole on the course. That would make it a dead heat....

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,

Good match-up which I generally agree with.  However, while the 17th at HOE is not particularly memorable it easily beats the 17th at SC, which IMHO is the worst hole on the course. That would make it a dead heat....

Jud:
 
I can understand how folks may not like 17 at SC.  To me its a tough birdie hole, but an easy bogey hole.  Its really hard to hit a shot where you wouldn't be able to get back in position to get up and down for a chance at par.  Its a hole that can be pretty tough into a west wind, as finding a good angle to the green from the fairway is imperative.

Sven

[Matthew Sander]

Thanks guys for all of the feedback regarding the day out in Elgin. I'd like to second Pat's sentiments that Keith Foster deserves real credit for his work done at The Highlands of Elgin and elsewhere. I checked out his design website and he has done some very respectable renovation work at some high profile clubs. If his Chicagoland original designs are representative of his work, then I will definitely try to seek out some of his other projects.

Although I've only played it this once, I'm almost certain I prefer The Highlands of Elgin to more renowned local publics like Cantigny and Ruffled Feathers. HoE can't compete with the overall facility at Cantigny (27 holes, great practice grounds, etc...), but I find the golf course much more interesting.

Sven,

Great hole by hole rundown. I can't really argue because I've not played Shepherd's Crook yet, but they seem to both be quite good. From what I understand, they have similar themes and features, but HOE is on a bigger, brawnier site and SC is more of a low profile course. What matters most is that they are two excellent public options on opposite sides of the Chicagoland area for around $40.

[Art_Schaupeter]

It is great to see The Highlands of Elgin get some attention from some of the members here.  I am glad to read that everyone enjoyed the course.  I would like to make a correction to one of the assumptions though.  Keith Foster was only involved in the original eight holes that are part of the final 18 hole course.  I designed the 10 new holes that opened this summer.  Keith was originally hired back in 1996.  He and I co-designed the first group of holes that opened in 2003.  I was retained by the city to complete the course over the past four years.  Stylistically I wanted to make sure that the holes all felt like they belonged together, so I tried to remain consistent with the bunker style and green style that we established with the first eight holes.  Otherwise, I thought that the quarry presented a really unique and dynamic opportunity for the Chicagoland golfers.  I wanted the golf holes to present as much flexibility and as many options of play as possible.  Not surprisingly from this group, reading through the reviews, you all picked up on that aspect.

It sounds  like the course has been well received in talking with the staff up there and visiting a couple of times this summer.  I am glad to see that this group had a good time.  It's fun to read the reviews since you all really appreciate some of the strategies and options that are presented.  I really enjoyed your hole by hole write up Matthew.  Spot on throughout.  If it is of interest, I have some before photos of the quarry that you might find interesting.  If you want to post them I can send them to you.

[Andrew Lewis]

I'd also like to (belatedly) thank Matt for organizing the outing.  Always a treat to play an interesting course with fellow architecture-nerds.

Sven's take on the first hole fairly well sums up my impression the Highlands course in comparison to Shepherd's Crook -- the internal movement on SC's greens is superior and, for me, what really makes the course a blast to play.  But the greens on HoE are not without interest and the tee and approach shots ask more of the player and thus increase the challenge of the course in addition to the fun.

On the firm/fast topic, I took particular note of the shaved/chipping areas leading to and around the greens.  The general firmness and close cropping of the grass meant putter was definitely a viable option -- on both the "drier" and "wetter" holes -- and one that I used several times.  Kudos to the grounds crew for that.

In any case, it's heartening to see another excellent public option at a very modest price....especially one with a nice grill area to enjoy a cold beverage after winning one's match!

[Matthew Sander]

Art,

Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for the misinformation. The course's website describes The Highlands of Elgin as a Keith Foster design, and I took that at face value. That said, the course was very interesting and enjoyed by all. It was a terrific value and is a departure from the typical Chicago public golf offering. I'm sure I speak for all of the guys in congratulating you on your work there. Since you offered, I will follow up with you via PM and we can exchange some of those pre-construction quarry photos. I'd be happy to post them on the thread to give a before/after look of the property. If you have any other information you'd like to share regarding the course and the process we'd love to hear...thanks again...

Matt

[Jud_T]

Art,

Are there any possible future plans that you're aware of for the adjacent quarry property?

[Sven Nilsen]

Art:

I'd greatly appreciate seeing the before photos of the site.  Great job on the new and old holes, especially with how you routed the ultimate project to make the course seamless. 

Sven

[Paul Richards]

As I have mentioned on a previous thread, the Highlands Of Elgin makes my Top 10 Public Courses of Chicagoland list.

Thanks for the photos!

[Art_Schaupeter]

Matt,

Thanks for the PM and nice comments.  I have sent you some before/after photos to post.  I have more if there is interest in seeing them.

Jud,

The golf course utilizes all of the actual quarry area, so I'm not sure which area you are referring to.  Are you referring to the area with the large crane that is usually behind hole 12 green or adjacent to hole 13?  Those are settling ponds for the water treatment facility.  Otherwise, I utilized most all of the quarry site that was available.  I guess the direct answer to your question is no, I am not aware of any other plans.  Now I am curious as to what areas you are referring to?

Sven,

Thanks for your comment on the seamlessness of the course.  You just validated the city's reason for bringing me back to finish the project after a four year delay.  I promised them that my primary goal would be to maintain the style that Keith and I had started with, though I did try to utilize the opportunities I thought I had on the quarry site to create some wider, multiple option holes.  We were able to create some nice scale on the original holes and I tried to push for more scale where I could on the new holes while keeping the style of the course consistent.

[Matthew Sander]

Art Schaupeter forwarded me some of the before/after and construction photos of The Highlands of Elgin. I'll post them and I encourage Art to follow up with any descriptive information regarding the photos. Thanks...

Hole 4 before



Hole 4 after



Hole 7 before



Hole 7 after



Quarry pit before



Quarry pit after



A couple more construction photos

[Jud_T]

Art,

Someone metioned that they heard there might be another 9 in the works on the adjacent "quarry" property.  Must be the area you are discussing and it sounds like they were mistaken.  Anyway,  congrats on a job well done.  Chicago has a lot of golf, but a surprisingly large percentage of it is mediocre and of a type.  The Highlands is a great addition to the public golf scene in the metro area and a good value to boot.  I'm putting it in the rotation with a bullet!

[PCCraig]

Art & Matt:

Thank you for supplying and posting the photos. Dramatic change indeed!

[Matthew Sander]

I had the opportunity to revisit The Highlands of Elgin this past Sunday. Ironically, it was was with the same three GCA gents that I played with in the original H of E outing. The Tang Bros, Jimmy Colton, and I survived the 95+ degree heat, which is a good thing since three of us are going to attempt 100+ holes in the near future.

I'll let the others chime in with their thoughts, but I emerged with two primary takeaways from the round. First, H of E really sets itself apart from many of the Chicago public golf options. The unique nature of the site coupled with the consistent themes of width and options make for a pleasant departure from what is typical of the region. That is not necessarily a criticism of the area's other public courses, rather it is praise for H of E.

Second, it seems the operation is still striving for firm/fast playing conditions. Now, we have been in a mini drought lately, so we didn't expect a soggy course. However, it was firm, no extremely firm. Prior to the round, the well-meaning starter relayed to us that the greens were stimping at least 11. We politely accepted his info, but our collective thought was, "yeah...right". Well, after a few holes his claim didn't seem so ridiculous. By the end of the day, we were astounded at how pitch shots and two bounce spinners were running forever.

Obviously, the conditions were exacerbated by the recent weather, but for them to be that extreme, one would have to assume that they started from a relatively firm/fast baseline. I would like to return some time this year during more typical weather to compare the conditions.

[Jud_T]

Matt,

Thanks for the update.  I don't recall it being quite that firm when we were out there in the fall of 2010.  Sounds like I need to get back out there.  I agree that it is one of a small handful of courses on the public side in Chicago, along with Ravisloe and Shepherd's Crook, that separate themselves from the pack.