Coore & Crenshaw @ Southern Hills

[Jeff_Mingay]

Who's played the third nine at Southern Hills by Coore & Crenshaw? I've always been interested in this lay out, but have not yet run into anyone who's played it...

[ed_getka]

The father of a patient of mine has played it, and he said it was fun. I didn't delve into the architectural particulars with him. He grew up playing at Southern Hills.
   I wonder if it is intended to give new players a place to work on their game, instead of beating themselves up on the championship course. I will ask the next time I see this guy.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff Mingay,

I"ve played it several times and like it.

It's on a different piece of property then the main course, almost treeless and fun to play, with some terrific holes.

What would you like to know ?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Pat,

Does it meld with the original course, or does the C&C nine have its own style?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

I find the underlying property to be different from that of the BIG course.  I won't say it's treeless, but it's close, and the topography is very different, with a major knoll or hill being a prominent internal feature.

The 9th hole probably gives one the feeling that it could be inserted into the BIG course and you wouldn't see a break in continuity or feel, or know the difference in the designers.

If I was going to use a term to describe it, to borrow a phrase from geometry, I'd say similar, but not congruent,

I could be wrong, but I don't think the intent was to exactly duplicate the architecture at the BIG course, but I don't feel that the concept was to substantially depart from it either.  

[Chris_Clouser]

Jeff,

The nine hole addition was, from what I have gathered, an interpretation of what Coore and Crenshaw thought Maxwell's style looked like back in the early stages of the original course.  

I've got a copy of the club history and I believe it has a copy of the layout in it.  I'll scan through it tonight and see what I can find in there about it.  

[Mark Saltzman]

Entire Photo Album available here: http://s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Southern%20Hills%20West/?start=all


400 yard par-4 1st.  Fairway tilts right-to-left and bunkers guard outside of dogleg.  A bunker 20 yards short of the green increases intimidation/deception.








200 yard par-3 2nd:




550 yard par-4 3rd:  Mowing lines have recently been changed on the left to create a double fairway with the 6th.  Still bunkering is generally penal in nature.  Second shot is semi-blind played over the crest of a hill. 








190 yard par-3 4th:




500 yard par-5 5th: Bunkers protect the inside of the dogleg and C&C definitely got the Maxwell feel here with the ideal line actually being from the outside of the dogleg.  Two bunkers pinch the lay-up zone 100 yards short of the green.








466 yard par-4 6th: Beast of a hole with a tee shot that must be fitted between the penal bunkering. 








450 yard par-4 7th: This really has a Maxwell feel to it, with a canted fairway, a feeder slope and no fairway bunkers.  As I have seen many times from Maxwell, the green lay innocently straight ahead, but that doesn't mean it's an easy hole!








150 yard par-3 8th: A Maxwell template? There is certainly a similar par-3 on the big course and the hole is not so far removed from the 15th at Oklahoma City G&CC.






420 yard par-4 9th: The hole weaves around a stream on the left, which then crosses in-front of the green.  The fairway has some noticeable reverse-cambre, a feature I only saw a few times from Maxwell (though he certainly did use it).  Another hole that really feels like Maxwell.

[mike_beene]

Although I can't tell what the carry is,the tee shot on the fifth pictured above reminds me of the second hole tee shot on the big course with the stream and then a bunker to carry just past it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Who's played the third nine at Southern Hills by Coore & Crenshaw? I've always been interested in this lay out, but have not yet run into anyone who's played it...

Jeff,

When I have time, I'll elaborate more

[Keith OHalloran]

Pat,
 In 2004 you called this course almost treeless.  Are Mark's photos deceiving? Or are all these trees a product of 8 years of growth?

[Derrick Vest]

Mark,

Thanks for stopping by to see us.  Glad you enjoyed the west 9. 

Derrick

[Derrick Vest]

Additionally, I would tell you some of our members play over there simply because the shots around the greens are much flatter hence easier.  The greens are actually much easier as well, but the there are some bears of holes over there that can really test you ball striking!

[mike_beene]

Derrick,as an aside,you have the best first tee in Golf.

[Sam Morrow]

Derrick,as an aside,you have the best first tee in Golf.

I think I agree but you know the Kingsley camp will be all over that.

[Derrick Vest]

It's absolutely fantastic.  Great tee shot, best location, it's wonderful for us as golf professionals, and the best view in Tulsa.  Great place for an office

[Derek Dirksen]

Derrick, your neighbor to the north in Owasso has a pretty good 1st tee shot as well.  Both are fantastic first tee shots.

[Ken Moum]

Pat,
 In 2004 you called this course almost treeless.  Are Mark's photos deceiving? Or are all these trees a product of 8 years of growth?

I had the same question....  If that's "almost treeless" I don't want to play a tight, tree-lined course.

K

[Scott_Park]

Its been 10-12 yrs since I played the C&C nine and I cant believe how different the course looks because of the tree growth.

As far as the merits of the course, I was rather disappointed.  The hole routings are fine, but the shallow saucer bunkers and general flatness of the course and greens didnt do it for me.