[Jason Connor]

It's really just like Soviet vs. US detente.  They spend, we spend, they spend, we spend.  Fortunately in that case, we had a bit longer credit line.

But the same here, only it's we spend, we spend.  We spend on fancier clubs, the courses spend on stronger defenses -- which WE end up paying for too.

[Garland Bayley]

Just yesterday, the NYT or the WSJ had an article about a "self-correcting" golf ball being the latest in high tech development.
...

The self-correcting golf ball is an old technology and has been ruled illegal in the rules of golf for some time now. My belief is that precedent could in part be used to rule the modern manipulated spin balls illegal.

[Mike Hendren]

+1 Patrick.

I have totally lost the ability to strike a golf ball and am thinking seriously about going back to my Wilson Staff Goosenecks.  I'd hate to finally hit a good iron shot and not feel it in my hands.

Mike

[Kevin Lynch]

Kevin-Just wondering if there are ever any friendly wagers with your companions and if so does it make a difference in what type of equipment you play?  

I always have friendly wagers, but the key is "friendly." I never play for enough that I'd care if I lost - I just like that little bit of action so I have a reason to say "I got you / need you here, partner." I plan on playing my hickories in the 40% range this year, and may use them exclusively in one of my leagues.  I'll maintain separate indexes, but the separation isn't that severe that it would make that much difference in my friendly wagers.

Besides, my primary playing partner purchased a set of hickories as well, so it's even less of an issue.  But even if he didn't, I wouldn't have any problem playing against people with their steels.  I think people are afraid of trying hickory because they think it's too much of a handicap, but it's really not (and it's so much fun re-discovering the game).

[Brent Hutto]

+1 Patrick.

I have totally lost the ability to strike a golf ball and am thinking seriously about going back to my Wilson Staff Goosenecks.  I'd hate to finally hit a good iron shot and not feel it in my hands.

Mike

So if the old blind hog finally does stumble across an acorn, at least he'll get to taste it.

[Kevin Lynch]

Kevin,

My friends want to beat me knowing that I gave them my best game possible.  If I suddenly become "Mr. Excuse" they lose out on the rare satisfaction that can only be achieved through victory of a fair hard fought battle.  I, and most of my friends, live for that feeling.

To me it would be like if my local barber decided to wear an eye patch while working.  He may occasionally perform as well as he did with two eyes but when he nips my left ear I am not interested in his excuse.

JK,

I understand the first paragraph considering what you & your partners want to get out of a round.  I didn't understand the whole "selfish" / "go play alone" parts of your original post.  But, given how much it seems you revel in putting your partners in their place, I would think the opportunity to beat them straight-up with hickory would be irresistible to you.  

Besides, you don't become "Mr Excuse" unless YOU choose to use hickory as an excuse.  

As for the barber analogy, I doubt the one-eyed barber is having a more enjoyable, "back to his roots" experience choosing to wear a patch.  But, if your friends are cold and "don't want to hear about it" as an excuse, that's perfect.  More enjoyment for you when you beat them.

 My first time out w hickory, I was told just that after nine holes by my friends.  Made it all the more satisfying when I started getting dialed in on the back.

[Stephen Davis]

I think it is selfish to play with equipment that does not fit the mores of your playing partners.  I love playing with hickories but would greatly disrupt the dynamic of my group of friends if I suddenly declared they were my clubs of choice.  It would be no different than suddenly playing left handed.  This is all fine if your goal as a golfer is to maximize YOUR fun.  Good for you, play alone.

Kevin,

My friends want to beat me knowing that I gave them my best game possible.  If I suddenly become "Mr. Excuse" they lose out on the rare satisfaction that can only be achieved through victory of a fair hard fought battle.  I, and most of my friends, live for that feeling.

To me it would be like if my local barber decided to wear an eye patch while working.  He may occasionally perform as well as he did with two eyes but when he nips my left ear I am not interested in his excuse.

John,

You just made me laugh twice within a few seconds. Great posts! While I agree that the industry has been making a huge push to proclaim every year that the previous years equipment is obsolete, I am not of the mind that playing equipment from the 19th century is going to increase my love for this great game. I enjoy a course more when I am able to play it as the designer intended and not from underneath the trees (which since I have less time to play and practice than I would like, happens more than I would like). There is no doubt that the new balls and new clubs are able to counteract some of my swing flaws.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kevin,

It would be rude to beat my friends straight up using hickories and then laughing twice at their fate.  In one of the first GCA get togethers (Cuscowilla) I brought along enough hickories so we all could play a scramble.  I think we had three teams and the scores were very low.

I once had a magic spoon that broke playing in poor conditions on a worse Doak.   The club was as fine as any modern 5 wood/metal ever made.  It was a con to play with that club feigning a handicap.  I have not played with hickories since that fateful day.

I love the double sided con bet that can not be lost.  I used to race people while wearing those big blue swim flippers.  You can't lose the kind of bet that you are not expected to win.  Lose anything besides your friends, that is.

Even today I take great pride that I have never cheated on my wife in 30 years of marriage.  Doesn't hurt being grossly obese with the lady skills of convex dressing room mirror.  Not all crutches are bad in life.  Being fat makes me happy and helps my marriage but I'm only lying to myself if I think it makes me a better person.

Go with the hickories, just don't lie to yourself why.

[JMEvensky]

Agreed that new equipment has many bad side effects.But,with maybe the exception of a couple of posters,new equipment doesn't really do what it's advertised to do--make everyone better.

Irrespective of the clubs used,good players will still be good and bad players will still be bad.We'd all just score a little worse with persimmon,steel,and balata.

However,is there anyone on this board who wouldn't give a vital organ to be good enough to see improvement with each semi-monthly TM driver just like their PGAT staff?Wouldn't everyone like to be good enough to make use of the manufacturers' incremental enhancements?

[Kevin Lynch]

JK,

I'm really confused where you're coming from on this. At first you seemed to imply that it's selfish to play hickories because you're not giving your friends your best.  Then, in the last post, you seem to imply there's some intent to "con" people in a bet by playing hickories because they're easier to hit than most people think.   Not really sure what you're driving at or if you think I'm being dishonest with myself.

How about this, I have an honest index by posting my hickory scores which reflects my ability with those. I maintain a separate honest index using my steels.  I tell people both instead of giving them my steel index and conning them into giving me 10 extra (when I know my differential is probably closer to 5).  

But strokes and beating people is least of my concerns.  I play hickory because it feels great, helps my rhythm, and heightens the overall playing experience.  It eludes me how it ever got mixed up with ideas of selfishness, conning, or not being honest with myself.

Perhaps I'm missing something in tone through written word.

[Tim Gavrich]

FYI, a handful of PGA Tour pros in the field for this week's Zurich Classic are rolling the clock back to 1912 and playing a few holes with hickories. Rickie Fowler, Keegan Bradley and others.  Looking forward to hear about this.

[Jim_Kennedy]

My belief is that precedent could in part be used to rule the modern manipulated spin balls illegal.

No precedent exists, amount of spin has never been regulated. Symmetry of dimple patterns has, but that's another story altogether.

[Garland Bayley]

My belief is that precedent could in part be used to rule the modern manipulated spin balls illegal.

No precedent exists, amount of spin has never been regulated. Symmetry of dimple patterns has, but that's another story altogether.

I don't remember the details, but I believe the dimple pattern changed side spin to back spin. Therefore, by transitivity they were regulating spin.

The point being an invention was made that changed the spin from what would happen if you hit a solid rubber ball with and angled surface. In the self-correcting ball the spin was changed in direction. In the modern ball the back spin rate is modified, i.e., plot the slope of angle to spin rate, and it comes out steeper than with the solid rubber ball.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Garland,

As you know, the 'change' to dimpled golf balls was made when it was observed that wounded gutties got airborne better than their smooth surfaced brothers. Dimples added more back and side spin to a ball that had little, and symmetry requires that the ball must be given free rein to respond to the forces applied to it.

The amount of spin has never been regulated.

[Garland Bayley]

Jim,

How did dimples add spin? Dimples reduced turbulence. The rules have never been written to specify spin. On that you are correct. However, a rule was written that had the effect of restricting the way a ball spun. That rule was written about the construction of the ball. A rule about the construction of the ball could be written that would alleviate the spin situation that has led to great distances of flight. However, it seems to me that with the technology available today it would be an easy matter to specifically specify spin parameters, and enforce them.

[Doug Siebert]

MHM,

Just yesterday, the NYT or the WSJ had an article about a "self-correcting" golf ball being the latest in high tech development.

In that regard I think Mike Clayton has hit the nail on the head.

The greater the challenge, the more rewarding it is to successfully meet that challenge.

If you Diminish the challenge you diminish the thrill of accomplishment.

If the game becomes "easy/easier" where's the lure ?

The article claimed that the self correcting ball would increase participation.
By whom, and how can they draw that conclusion ?

The game rose enormously in popularity when it was very difficult.

Do you want the culture of the game altered by a new breed that only gravitates to the game because the challenge has been diminishe ?

Sorry Patrick, that already happened, courtesy of the big headed driver that took the driver from the most difficult club in the bag for beginners to hit successfully to the easiest.  And the modern ball, that made the drive into a 30 mph wind that used to terrify even good players become far less nerve wracking.

Hopefully the Polara decision will make this ball illegal, but regardless it'll matter more mentally than it matters in reality.  There are very few players who hit the ball consistently square but with a big curve on it who would gain any real benefit.  Unless they can make a ball that cures mishits, something like this which will only benefit poor players (and even then not nearly as much as they'd like to believe) I'm not too concerned.

I see the risk more in all the technologies that improve the lot of good players, especially things like high COR drivers and multilayer balls that improve the lot of ONLY good players while doing nothing for the guys who shoot under 90 once a year and are thrilled to do so.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug,

What already happened ?

Shaft development shouldn't be overlooked

[Bradley Anderson]

Patrick,

From what I observe every day working on a golf course, equipment technology actually works against golfers.

Nearly everyone hits from the tees that are way too long for them. Because they have a BIG DRIVER they think they have the shot but most of them just get in to trouble off the tee. And all of that works to slow play down for everyone else.

If we went back to 6,000 - 6,500 yard golf courses and wooden woods the game might actually be more fun for everyone.

[Phil Benedict]

The one equipment advance that made the game more fun for me was cut-resistant balls.  I even embraced surlyn because I hated how easy it was to cut balata.

[Anthony Butler]

Patrick,

From what I observe every day working on a golf course, equipment technology actually works against golfers.

Nearly everyone hits from the tees that are way too long for them. Because they have a BIG DRIVER they think they have the shot but most of them just get in to trouble off the tee. And all of that works to slow play down for everyone else.

If we went back to 6,000 - 6,500 yard golf courses and wooden woods the game might actually be more fun for everyone.

The Rocketballz FW campaign is a typical example of that... it creates an expectation of improved club performance-and distance. What's lost from the ad is that people like Sean o'Hair and Dustin Johnson are hitting it in the dead center of club face with a swing speed of approx 110mph. Only when you properly compress the ball can you can expect to see gains of 15 yards.

Much like the 30% of the country who think they're going to be in the 1%, people are not being realistic about their abilities. Golf technology is a microcosm of our economy, only a sliver of people are realizing the gains over the last 10 years... 

99% of golfers would see better results and improved distance by keeping their current equipment and putting their money into golf lessons...

[Garland Bayley]

Sorry Patrick, that already happened, courtesy of the big headed driver that took the driver from the most difficult club in the bag for beginners to hit successfully to the easiest.  And the modern ball, that made the drive into a 30 mph wind that used to terrify even good players become far less nerve wracking.
...

I'm sorry, but there are lots of beginners out there that find the driver the most difficult club in the bag. And, the golf companies are making it harder every year. The new drivers in the pro shop at my club are now 46 inches long. Undoubtedly the companies will research materials and construction and in a few years be making drivers that are 47 inches long with a D2 swingweight.

As for the ball, it has made no difference for beginners. Any beginner would be nuts to buy a $5 ball when they can buy 75 cent balls that have always have the limited spin.

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