The Warren Course - from a national perspective

[Chris_Clouser]

I've working on something here and wanted to try and get some feedback about a course here in Indiana that might have some national appeal.  The Warren Course at Notre Dame seems to be a good candidate as several people on this board appear to have played it.

I want to see what the people on this board think of the Warren Course in comparison to the national landscape of golf courses.  I was wondering if you had to rate the Warren Course, where would you put it.  You can use the Doak scale, a top 100 rating or whatever, but something that puts this course in perspective against other courses around the country.  Add any other commentary you want about the course because I would love to hear anything to support your opinion, but think about and provide where you seem to think this course falls in the landscape of golf in America. 

Thanks

[PCCraig]

Hi Chris-

I just went down and played 36 on the Warren Course about two months ago in June on a Saturday with a buddy. We drove down (very) early and were the second group off and played in 2.5 hours. Had so much fun we decided to play again and played that round in 3.5 hours. After a stop in New Buffalo for some Redamaks we were home in Downtown Chicago by 4. Not a bad day. Anyway...

The bottom line is that more public golf courses should be designed like the Warren Course at Notre Dame. To counteract the less interesting land, the C&C smartly started by finding 18 great greensites and building some very neat in interesting greens, and then allowed for the fairways and strategy to find itself. The par-3's are the most interesting high points throughout the round, mostly due to 4 cool Maxwell-style greens that are surrounded in different ways by either false fronts or bunkering...giving them a classic look. The best holes are on the back end of each nine (by design) and use the most interesting land down by the creek on the lower part of the property. In the end, the course doesn't try to be anything it's not...and its far better for it.

On a national level? I'm not sure it's that good to consider it a top 100 or anything. On a "Doak" rating I would say it's a 5 or 6. I think its worth driving a couple hours on a weekend day to spend a day on, but I wouldn't fly there from someplace a few states away only to see the course.

[Andy Troeger]

Chris,
I think Warren makes a case for the Top 100 Public listings--its as good or better than some of the courses that I've seen that make the lists, including Circling Raven, Whistling Straits Irish, Longaberger, Spanish Bay, Redlands Mesa, and even Rustic Canyon. Its a heck of a lot better than Trump National LA. I'd probably put it in the 60-80 range based on what else I've played nationally.

My guess at a Doak score would be a 6.

[Eric_Terhorst]

I think it's a Doak 7, if the definition is the following:

7: An excellent course, worth checking out if within 50-100 miles. You can expect sound design; interesting holes; good conditions and a pretty setting; if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf.

That sums it up perfectly for me.  C&C make the best of flat portions of the property with imaginative design in the routing, bunkering and greens, and then hit the nail on the head in taking advantage of the better parts of the property--for example in #10.

I can't comment on Andy's placement in the rankings, but I can say I won't be going back to the Kohler Irish course ever again, unless you're buying Chris, and you could add another 20 bucks to the Warren greens fee (I recall $55?), and I would still consider it a great value.  Look forward to getting back there.


Pat, it sounds like you made a special trip, so not sure why you would categorize it as a Doak 5 or 6:

5: Well above the avg. course, but the middle of this scale. A good course if in the vicinity, but not worth setting aside a day to visit.

6: A very good course, definitely worth a game, but not necessarily worth a special trip to see. It shouldn't disappoint you.

[PCCraig]

Pat, it sounds like you made a special trip, so not sure why you would categorize it as a Doak 5 or 6:

5: Well above the avg. course, but the middle of this scale. A good course if in the vicinity, but not worth setting aside a day to visit.

6: A very good course, definitely worth a game, but not necessarily worth a special trip to see. It shouldn't disappoint you.

Sorry, I was pretty much guessing on the Doak scale as I don't have the book in front of me. But even still I would probably put it more in like with a "6" than "7" according to the blurbs you typed out.

[Chris_Clouser]

Thanks for the comments guys.  I'll bump it up one time to see if anyone else wants to chime in.

[PThomas]

a Doak 5, 6 Max

[Rob_Waldron]

I enjoyed the Warren course the few times I played however I do not think it is even the best daily fee course in the South Bend area. That honor has to go to Hurdzan & Fry's Blackthorn GC. Coore & Crenshaw did a nice job with their routing transitioning between rather non descript flat heathland praries and the more interesting parkland areas which feature some dramatic topography. Blackthorn has the advantage of a superior piece of property. I enjoy the green complexes and bunkering at Warren but would rather play Blackthorn 6 of 10 times. 

[Brian Finn]

I have been meaning to bump this thread up to get more thoughts and opinions on the Warren Course at ND.  With the Midwest Mashie now set to take place there, it seemed an appropriate time. 

I have personally played the course a number of times, and find it more fun and interesting each time around.  The posts from 2009 had it at a Doak 6 or 7, and that seems about right to me.  I'd say it's a Top 100 Public as well, as it compares favorably to many courses in each publication's list. 

What do you think?  What are the best aspects of the course?

[Brad Tufts]

I see it in the back end of the T100 public.  I think it's a course that requires a few plays to catch all the subtleties, as it certainly does not hit you over the head with flashy features.

I compare it to an older course with smooth lines, pushed up greens, and strategic bunkering.

And saying the Blackthorn is better is ludicrous.  Blackthorne is not terrible, but its not at the level of the Warren Course either.