Rakes in Waste Areas

[Jerry Kluger]

I was watching the European Tour and it appeared to me that Jason Day's caddy was raking the waste area after he played his shot.  Since you are allowed to ground your club should there be rakes to smooth the surface?  There are many who argue that there shouldn't be rakes in bunkers but how about in a waste area?

[Anthony Gray]

  Leave it better than you find it comes to mind.

  Anthony

[Bill_McBride]

Is it a waste area if there's a rake?    That's how we tell the difference at our place.   

[Kalen Braley]

I don't see it any differently than:

Repairing a divot
Fixing a ballmark
Picking up pebbles off greens

I have seen rakes in waste areas as well....just got to rely on the local rules sheet to determine which is which.

[Jerry Kluger]

Kalen: The difference is that it is a waste area which is by its nature not like a green, fairway, etc., it is an area that because of its uniqueness you are allowed to ground your club unlike a bunker.  It is a hazard but it is given an exception to allow you to ground your club.

Anthony: I really question if you should leave it better than you found it.  Look at all the areas at places like Bandon where there is sandy soil and you are allowed to ground your club - what if they had rakes in them, would you really feel it best that you rake it after you play out of it? 

[Adam Clayman]

Jerry,
 I've seen places that played through the green that had rakes. It was at WWPB, FWIW.

It's an option depending on how; 1, Considerate you are. 2. How big a mess you made. 3. If you have a caddie that can do it without you slowing play. 

[Jerry Kluger]

Adam: Let me restate the question: If they are going to put rakes there and ask you to restore the condition to how it was before you got there then why are you allowed to ground your club?  My experience has been that they call it a waste area because it is so big that it is likely that many times players will not be able to restore the situation or too lazy to do so.  Forget about pristine conditions and accept the fact that you can ground your club and get on with it. 

[Anthony Gray]

Kalen: The difference is that it is a waste area which is by its nature not like a green, fairway, etc., it is an area that because of its uniqueness you are allowed to ground your club unlike a bunker.  It is a hazard but it is given an exception to allow you to ground your club.

Anthony: I really question if you should leave it better than you found it.  Look at all the areas at places like Bandon where there is sandy soil and you are allowed to ground your club - what if they had rakes in them, would you really feel it best that you rake it after you play out of it? 

  I've spent alot of time off the course while playing Jerry. If a rake is there I feel I need to use it. The first time I played Sawgrass I couldn"t believe that they were taking carts through the bunkers.

  Anthony

[Jerry Kluger]

Anthony: No rakes makes sense to me.

[Gary Slatter]

  Leave it better than you find it comes to mind.

  Anthony

good thought, at least leave it similar to the way you found it     Gawf is a gentleman's game.    clubs could be used instead of rakes, but rakes are faster.

[Mark Johnson]

we have some rakes in our waste areas, but they are for the grounds crew.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I thought waste areas are that waste areas. I do not see who would think there should be or could a rake in there to repair the actions which happened before it.

[Sam Morrow]

Are there rakes in the desert at Scottsdale?

[Greg Chambers]

no rakes, anywhere!

[Lou_Duran]

I thought waste areas are that waste areas. I do not see who would think there should be or could a rake in there to repair the actions which happened before it.

Me.  I saw my host at a well-known course land in a 6"+ footprint in a "waste area" less than 30 yards from the green.  He hacked away several times before putting the ball in his pocket.  Whenever I am in one myself, I always try to smooth what I disturbed with my foot or a club after my shot.  It would be easier if there was a rake available, but given that not a small number of golfers don't even bother to clean up after themselves in a normal bunker, there is probably no compelling reason to put them out.

[Jerry Kluger]

Lou: Do you think the guy couldn't get out because of the footprint or his ability to hit a sand shot?  If you land on top of some pine needles you can ground your club but you choose not to in order to avoid a penalty stroke but no one complains that someone should have picked up the pine needles. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Lou I must admit I do smooth out the waste area with my foot or club head. I do not think I would in an event wihtout asking the rule though.

[Lou_Duran]

Jerry- the guy was in a 6" DEEP footprint.  Tiger Woods couldn't have gotten out of it.  His best play was to have declared it unplayable and taking a drop.  He probably didn't because of the high probability that the dropped ball would have plugged in the deep, soft sand.  Pine needles and footprints are different things- the latter are man-made and change the playing areas; I can remove loose impediments out of a waste area at the risk of incurring a penalty if the ball moves.

Tiger- I am not a rules expert, but I'm fairly sure that there's no penalty for cleaning up the disturbed area after the shot.  At most public courses I play and a few privates as well, some golfers don't bother to rake regular bunkers; waste areas are treated literally with beer cans, wrappers, and cart tracks all over the place.  As maintenance budgets get tighter, I bet we will see more of these unmaintained areas.  I can buy a rake for under $10 at Home Depot, hardly a high cost item.

[Adam Clayman]

Jerry, I'm a bit confused when you say "They ask you to rake". Who are they? At WWPB, I seem to recall the first time I was there, raking was an option. At least that's what I remember the started tell me.

Once in a tournament at York CC, I hit into what Tony Chapman told was always played as a waste area, but since there were rakes, I refused to ground my club. Better safe than sorry.

[Pete Blaisdell]

You may clean up waste areas after playing . If you make a hole with your shot, just use your foot to clean it up. Enter and leave on your same trail.

I'm a proponant of no rakes for waste areas. It's " through the green". No differant than being in a old divot in the fairway or buried in 4 inch rough. You get what you get. That's the game. Hit it and move on .

[Brian Stewart]

no rakes, anywhere!

And make sure you always get the first tee time of the day! 

Are there rakes in the desert at Scottsdale?

No but it is totally different on most AZ desert courses. The desert areas you can play from more closely resembles hard pan almost every time. It is quite easy on a full shot if you have a normal swing and aren't afraid of scratches on your clubs.

[Jerry Kluger]

Brian: Maybe that's why I play Ping irons - I hit it in the desert so much that I don't want some fancy, high-polished clubs that will get scratched up in the desert.

Pete: You're right about divots, etc., and they are no different than hitting in a waste area.

[jeffwarne]

You may clean up waste areas after playing . If you make a hole with your shot, just use your foot to clean it up. Enter and leave on your same trail.

I'm a proponant of no rakes for waste areas. It's " through the green". No differant than being in a old divot in the fairway or buried in 4 inch rough. You get what you get. That's the game. Hit it and move on .

Pete,
On a recent rip to Florida every course I played had ALL bunkers, even greenside played as waste areas.
This was done either as a way to skimp on maintenance or reduce arguements amongst players as to what was waste and what wasn't.
Without rakes, EVERY  bunker in close proxiimity to play would quickly become a mess, and I would argue that the feet dig in and exploding nature of the swing would be far greater an impact than merely an old divot left in the rough.

So rakes in waste areas can be acceptable.
As I've often said about Friar's Head, if you want a player to repair his mess properly (and believe me they do ), give him the correct tool.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

unless the rake would be in a position to stop my ball from traveling into an even worse spot in the waste area, I say leave the rake in the bunkers.

[Matthew Essig]

I know that at chambers bay, when there is a rake in a sandy area, it is a bunker; however most of the course is surrounded by waste areas with no rakes.

I think that there shouldn't be rakes in waste areas...