David McLay Kidd Update

[Emile Bonfiglio]

This article came out back in Nov, but is now available to read. I'm very interested to see what develops in Brewster WA. I've heard claims it will be better than Bandon Dunes we will have to wait and see.

http://www.bendbulletin.com/article/20111130/FREE/311309997/

[Kalen Braley]

I'm obviously interested...

but seems odd, another potential high end public that's fairly far off the beaten path...like Wine Valley. Google Maps puts its at about 2:15 from Spokane....I'll have to stop in there this summer when I head thru that way for KP and or to play Desert Canyon.

[Garland Bayley]

“Maybe Tetherow and the Castle Course I pushed maybe a tiny bit too hard,” Kidd reflected about the difficulty of the courses.

But, yet when it opened all the Tetherow quotes from him were about him not being a good player so he made it playable for the average golfer.

IMO he got extremely lucky to get Bandon Dunes, which put him ahead of where he should have been, and over time he might start to understand a bit of what some of the more seasoned architects understand.

[Kalen Braley]

Here is the layout for the Kidd course....

http://www2.cybergolf.com/sites/courses/layout12.asp?id=679&page=38939

[Alex Miller]

Here is the layout for the Kidd course....

http://www2.cybergolf.com/sites/courses/layout12.asp?id=679&page=38939

Wow, I really love the look of it from this plan. So many alternate routes!

[Kalen Braley]

If you look here, it looks like they began shaping some holes....which I guess would be for the Pete Dye course...

http://maps.google.com/?ll=48.125625,-119.779558&spn=0.022,0.038795&t=h&z=15

[Jaeger Kovich]

12 employees... wow, thats a lot of people to keep busy!

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Number 14 looks great, love the risk reward for the premium green angle.

[Ally Mcintosh]

IMO he got extremely lucky to get Bandon Dunes, which put him ahead of where he should have been, and over time he might start to understand a bit of what some of the more seasoned architects understand.

Perhaps I could agree with the first part of that statement... But hey, every architect needs luck and perhaps his main bit of luck was who his Client was and how the reputation of Bandon Dunes has grown with each subsequent course... Not his getting the job in the first place...

As for the second part of that statement, it seems very presumptious and by implying that Kidd doesn't understand what others do, it also implies that you do...

[Shane Wright]

Ally, my thoughts as well.  Garland, can you elaborate on this a little more?

[Garland Bayley]

The second part of my statement was motivated by DMK following on BD with some courses where he went overboard, and was called back in to make significant modifications. In particular Tetherow and the Castle course. Maybe I am just ignorant, but it seems to me that some of the architects that were first seasoned by working with Pete Dye such as Tom Doak, and Gil Hanse, have not had to be called back for such modifications.

[Tom_Doak]

The second part of my statement was motivated by DMK following on BD with some courses where he went overboard, and was called back in to make significant modifications. In particular Tetherow and the Castle course. Maybe I am just ignorant, but it seems to me that some of the architects that were first seasoned by working with Pete Dye such as Tom Doak, and Gil Hanse, have not had to be called back for such modifications.

Garland:

I've gone overboard occasionally; I'm just lucky I didn't do so at a course which is in the public eye, and where the client insisted on going back and making changes.  I think Gil has a couple of examples of that as well.

[Michael George]

What is "overboard" is purely a subjective determination.  While many would call something "overboard", I tend to love those features.  For instance, while the "sensative" golfer may criticize the narrow approach shots into #6 and #16 at Pacific Dunes, they tend to be 2 of my favorite shots on the course.  Here is one vote for architects to continue to push the envelope.

Also, what is "overboard" greatly diminishes with time.  Some of the best golf holes were once considered "overboard".   There are countless examples of this position on the legendary Scottish golf courses - North Berwick say.  In modern times, there is no better example than #17 at TPC Sawgrass - like it or not, it is today generally accepted in gca circles.

   

[Garland Bayley]

The second part of my statement was motivated by DMK following on BD with some courses where he went overboard, and was called back in to make significant modifications. In particular Tetherow and the Castle course. Maybe I am just ignorant, but it seems to me that some of the architects that were first seasoned by working with Pete Dye such as Tom Doak, and Gil Hanse, have not had to be called back for such modifications.

Garland:

I've gone overboard occasionally; I'm just lucky I didn't do so at a course which is in the public eye, and where the client insisted on going back and making changes.  I think Gil has a couple of examples of that as well.

Then call me ignorant.

[Sean Leary]

The second part of my statement was motivated by DMK following on BD with some courses where he went overboard, and was called back in to make significant modifications. In particular Tetherow and the Castle course. Maybe I am just ignorant, but it seems to me that some of the architects that were first seasoned by working with Pete Dye such as Tom Doak, and Gil Hanse, have not had to be called back for such modifications.

Garland:

I've gone overboard occasionally; I'm just lucky I didn't do so at a course which is in the public eye, and where the client insisted on going back and making changes.  I think Gil has a couple of examples of that as well.

TD,

Did you redo a couple of greens at Rock Creek or were they done in house?

[Garland Bayley]

The second part of my statement was motivated by DMK following on BD with some courses where he went overboard, and was called back in to make significant modifications. In particular Tetherow and the Castle course. Maybe I am just ignorant, but it seems to me that some of the architects that were first seasoned by working with Pete Dye such as Tom Doak, and Gil Hanse, have not had to be called back for such modifications.

Garland:

I've gone overboard occasionally; I'm just lucky I didn't do so at a course which is in the public eye, and where the client insisted on going back and making changes.  I think Gil has a couple of examples of that as well.

Then call me ignorant.

Actually, I take that back. I am confident that Tom and Gil have not been asked back to remove "mohawks" and "eyebrows".

[Tom_Doak]

The second part of my statement was motivated by DMK following on BD with some courses where he went overboard, and was called back in to make significant modifications. In particular Tetherow and the Castle course. Maybe I am just ignorant, but it seems to me that some of the architects that were first seasoned by working with Pete Dye such as Tom Doak, and Gil Hanse, have not had to be called back for such modifications.

Garland:

I've gone overboard occasionally; I'm just lucky I didn't do so at a course which is in the public eye, and where the client insisted on going back and making changes.  I think Gil has a couple of examples of that as well.

TD,

Did you redo a couple of greens at Rock Creek or were they done in house?

Sean:

Eric Iverson did the work on those.  The work on #9 was pretty minor, I really didn't understand why they wanted it done.  #4 was just a bit too bumpy after a long approach shot, I couldn't really argue with that choice.

The only other green I've ever rebuilt on one of our courses was the first at Stone Eagle, which we softened a bit.  I knew that one was going to be severe when we built it, but being the first green, it kind of became the scapegoat for the adventurous nature of the course, of which some disapproved.