What Features Should The 2016 Olympic Course Have?

[Mac Plumart]

Chris...

I love your comments on backdrops.  I think well placed backdrops give the course a sense of place and make courses unique. 

East Lake's 16th hole has downtown Atlanta high above the tree line.  Sense of place.

North Berwick has the islands/rocks/The Law off the coast that come into vision. Sense of place.

The Old Course and the town of St. Andrews.  NGLA and the Windmill and Bay.  Harbour Town and the Lighthouse.  All seem to subconsicously let you know where you are and give those places a little extra something.

Hopefully, this Olympic Course can have its sense of place as well.

[Sven Nilsen]

Chris:

Didn't realize the water features existed on the land that was used for Shooting Star.  It was my understanding they did quite a bit of work to create the golf terrain from what was once a cow pasture.  You probably can't beat the Tetons as a backdrop unless you built a course at the Base Camp of Everest.

I did a bit more digging on the Olympics site.  It looks like the land from for the course was purchased from a development called Riserva Uno.  They have a block of high-end high-rise condo-type buildings at the northeast end of the property.  Here's a link to their website, which seems to mention the addition of a golf course:  http://riservauno.com/index.asp.  I don't read Portuguese, so I'm not sure how hard they are selling the proximity to the future site of the course used for the Games.

Would be extremely interesting to know what the land was originally purchased for and how much the Olympic effort had to pay to get it.  Would also like to know what the turnover has been like on the houses located on the property's western edge.

If you spend some time with the street view available on google (http://maps.google.com/?ll=-23.006831,-43.406961&spn=0.015662,0.018196&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=6 - link provided by Kalen on a different thread), there are some mountains to the east, north and west, but they're a bit too far out to look like the view would be that dramatic.  There will probably be some nice views to the south, but an actually ocean view is blocked by the barrier land across the inter-coastal.  The Riserva Uno complex will be featured prominently from just about anywhere on the course.

Its also interesting to note that the map notes that this area was some kind of ecological park or preserve.  I'm not sure if this is specific to the intercoastal area, or the entire site in general.

[Peter Pallotta]

Fescue and -- from the back/tournament tees -- severe angles.  Test their distance control and ability to work the ball off the driver and long irons.  Confuse them with random bunkering. Allow them to hit 16 out of 18 huge greens, and then test their mettle and patience when they're only making a birdie or two a day.  Stretch it out to 7400+ yards, so no one is threading their way around with a hybrid.  And, after it's all over, have the everyday tees set at much less severe angles and about 6500 yards, and slow the greens down from 14 to about 10, and cut the fescue down.

What's the big deal    

[RJ_Daley]

Mac, thanks for the tip of the hat that I was for the most part trying to bring up what I 'guessed' might be some issues and features.  Tom also picked up on some of my posts on this thread and moreso on the other thread where I made some smart ass comments with an initial post listing 8 improbably candidates, and the fact I was so dumb, I actually in my first post thought the question was about the Oly club in San Fran,  LMAO on that one.

But when I started getting serious and trying to be thoughtful, I did nod to Norman and Ochoa for those reasons of 'connections', networking, and image that I seriously think is a huge factor in Oly politics if history is any guide.  I mentioned Norman's Championsgate for a specific reason that I thought it really looked like the same sort of flat, sandy, wetlandish terrain where Championsgate is built.  So, if Norman wants to show off his vision on use of such a landscape I'd think he'd entertain the committee there and at his Jupiter digs.  It was particularly interesting to look at Sven's link to the google street view.  Here is ongoing construction at Championsgate, and in my opinion, you might be looking at very similar site challenges:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Championsgate+Golf+Resort,+Orlando,+Masters+Boulevard,+FL&hl=en&ll=28.273922,-81.636679&spn=0.000038,0.020449&sll=37.055177,-95.668945&sspn=14.343547,33.815918&vpsrc=6&hq=Championsgate+Golf+Resort,+Orlando,+Masters+Boulevard,+FL&radius=15000&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.273919,-81.640777&panoid=1bIPULymzYtBkKlQpGTPYw&cbp=12,248.76,,0,12.77

But, when you speak of 'features' in construction, it seems to me that you need to also consider the custom and practices of the area that you are going to be working in.  I certainly have no clue what sort of 'on-the-ground' support the Rio government and powers that be are offering to the design firm for site security and "fixing".  But, I'm going to guess that perhaps Randy Thompson has some relevant information in that regard.  Here is a link to a bit about the local challenges of working with the customs and practices of the tumultuous 'favela' culture and a story that touches on the integration of those customs and considerations that perhaps only a 'fixer' working with the design team who has sway in that community can bring, and may be needed.

http://www.brazilmax.com/news.cfm/tborigem/pl_southcentral/id/44
It seems the development of the only golf country club neighbor to this oly site is Gavea Country Club and the story of the impromptu rise of the favela Canoa may be part of one's preparation to complete a bid.  I'd be asking the oly committee for budget to handle special situations or a fixer as job one. On the street view of the north fence line of the oly site, it looks like gang scratchings are definitely there and they may need some interpretation.  Looking at that site from what you can see, is it out of the question one might find a few 'desaparecidos'.

The good news is there appears to be a going gin mill on the property, and the bad news is a few of those desaparecidos may have been last seen there.    But, it also may have 3 phase power...

http://maps.google.com/?ll=-23.000244,-43.405539&spn=0.00001,0.005112&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-23.000237,-43.406705&panoid=LkFicBscUe2F50vu-1iZMg&cbp=12,144.67,,0,1.86

 Granted, I'm off the topic of 'features' as we like to discuss regarding architecture. 

[PCCraig]

Without seeing the property, but knowing that the land is flat, but seaside (but not "dramatic" with cliffs and the such) I would love to see a course that resembles a "lowcountry" design in the same mold of Yeamans Hall or CC of Charleston. I'm thinking of a course with wide fairways, few but highly strategic bunkers, and big, wild, built-up greens. In the case of the Olympic Course, I would assume that after the games leave the course will become public in a land where public golf is far from developed. So, it would be great to see a course that really tests the best players in the world with interesting greens, but remains playable through the green for the average golfer. Besides, how many forced carries are actually forced for the best players in the world anymore? How many bunkers are actually too deep for them to get out of?

I'm sure there are going to be a few guys who are going to try to sell the Olympic Committee on building a big, bold, Whistling Straits-style course, but the easiest way to stand out will probably be to do the opposite. Personally I think the "I would love to do X, but it'll never happen" attitude will set a Tom Doak or Gil Hanse up to lose before they even begin.

[Jud_T]

Sven,

Interesting that's it's an environmentally sensitive area.  Could this play into the minimalist's hands?

PP,

Not an expert by a longshot, but I'm pretty sure fescue doesn't work in that climate as it doesn't get cool enough at night in the summer months.

[Peter Pallotta]

Jud - thanks, you're probably right (or at least, I'm probably wrong). I'd fallen too much in love wth my TOC analogy.  Please replace "fescue" with some indigenous Brazilian wild-grass, unkempt and snarly.

Yes, that's the ticket!!

Peter

[Randy Thompson]

It seems logical they will need space for temporary building for the event. Be nice if after the event some of the structures could be eliminated and a lighted par three added in the area, next to the highway. That might help golf grow in the area.

[Tim Nugent]

Tim

In answer to your post #7  “For those wishing for a Scottish Links, really? In an urban, tropical setting?”

Pray tell me what type of courses were out in the corners of the British Empire in the mid 1800’s. Would they have been the American style courses based upon the links of Nicklaus or would they be home from home Scottish based courses.

1860 India


South Africa 1896


Then perhaps we seem to know a little more about the history of golf than others, adfter all we have been playing it for a few years

1690 at Carnoustie


Me thinks you have neglected your golfing history, tropical setting, yes very much so.

Melvyn

Melven, perhapsI should have prefaced Urban with "Modern".  You know, like after the inventionof the auto and high-rise.  Also, I have to object that  "we" know more about history due the the premise that you have been playing since 1690?  I didn't know you and yours had such long life spans. Where are you keeping the fountain of youth hiding?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tim

I feel you need to re-read my comment, it said playing for a few years not since 1690. The 1690 was just an example as to how long the game was played in Scotland before it went worldwide. In the late 1870/early 80's in Darien Georgia, James/Robert & John Hunter built a course based upon the Scottish model.

No fountain of youth as that's down to you not reading my post correctly. Re Modern, Modern circa the modern game of golf, modern in not Roman, its modern urban but how old is urban?

As for high rise, the Romans had high rise apartment 2000 years ago, Crete had in 1600BC, auto, auto what, clocks, cars, aids whatever.

The point being tropical golf, that walking humid golf in wet and dry regions is not new. That’s the history lesson you need to understand.

But you may have a point that thanks to GCA.com I have aged twice as fast in these past few years

Melvyn