[John Kavanaugh]

I took the time yesterday to review Ran's critique of Sand Hills when I was considering how their 4th hole played.  I was shocked to see the hole listed at 485 yds, while of course I may have played it much shorter.  This all occurs off the heels of just playing the new course at Dismal River this weekend.  As we all know all to well, the new course is growing in as it waits to mature, or get its engine so to speak.  The fairways are slow, the greens slower and the bunkers unfinished.  

I was fortunate to play the new course exactly one year ago this month when it didn't even have wheels.  This year it is really close but not quite there as it probably won't be next year either.  

How much does this all matter is the question.  To me, everything.  As I look back on my great times had at Sand Hills I can not imagine playing without the fast fairways, beautiful bunkers and perfect, perfect greens.  In other words, the engine powers the strategy of the course.  

What do you think about racing a Ferrari in a Soap Box Derby?  How much will you learn about the car?

[PCCraig]

There's a new course at Dismal River?!?!?!?!?!?!

[John Kavanaugh]

There's a new course at Dismal River?!?!?!?!?!?!

Thanks Pat Craig, do you ever play in the snow or similar conditions where the strategy of a course is not exposed?  Have you ever played a course pre-opening?  What was your experience like?

[Dan Kelly]

I'd suggest another analogy:

Playing a slow course that's designed to be fast is like entering an uphill Soapbox Derby.

I've had the opportunity to play Northland CC (Donald Ross, Duluth, Minn.) each of the past two years. Last year, it was too soft and slow to appreciate it properly. This year, it was that Ferrari you mentioned -- and it taught me a great deal about the golf course, and more than I wanted to know about my game!

The same could be said about Pat Craig's home course. It's a wild ride when it's fast. Not so much so when it's not.

[Terry Lavin]

I was a member at Olympia when the golf course was rebuilt in anticipation of hosting the US Open.  All of the greens were regrassed at that time and two of them were rebuilt.  For some reason, our superintendent was firm in his resolve that we play the new greens at speeds of 8 on the Stimpmeter for an entire year, in order to protect the greens.  Boy, was that frustrating.  We knew the course to have hard and fast greens, greens that allowed a lot of runout if one lipped a putt.  They were demonic in spots.  Then, we had an entire year of soft, perfectly green, slow putting surfaces.  It ruined the experience, let me tell you.  And from my recollection, it did nothing for the grass on the greens.  It took years for the L-93 to firmly establish itself.  Basically, a disaster.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'd suggest another analogy:

Playing a slow course that's designed to be fast is like entering an uphill Soapbox Derby.

I've had the opportunity to play Northland CC (Donald Ross, Duluth, Minn.) each of the past two years. Last year, it was too soft and slow to appreciate it properly. This year, it was that Ferrari you mentioned -- and it taught me a great deal about the golf course, and more than I wanted to know about my game!

The same could be said about Pat Craig's home course. It's a wild ride when it's fast. Not so much so when it's not.

An uphill Soapbox Derby doesn't sound like any fun at all.  I'd like to see a Ferrari compete against the home made cars. I think it might lose.

[Dan Kelly]

An uphill Soapbox Derby doesn't sound like any fun at all.

Exactly.

[Jason Thurman]

There's a municipal course in Des Moines, IA that sits on a wonderful property and is routed extremely well. The stretch from hole 2-8 is, topographically, about as good as anything I've played. The entire back 9 is really fantastic too.

Unfortunately, it's completely overgrown with trees and other vegetation. Iowa is very fertile, the course is over 100 years old, and RoundUp and chainsaws appear to have never been on the property. The result is some ridiculously choked playing corridors.

It also has very slow greens that are very flat, and the course conditioning tends to be fair at best.

It's probably not a Ferrari in a Soap Box Derby. Maybe more of a Nissan Maxima 4DSC. But there's a really good engine down there somewhere. Playing it now, you don't learn much about the car. But every now and then, when the plugs fire at just the right time, you'll see a bounce that makes you say "Whoa, that was cool," and you can imagine just how well it might run if only someone would put some new tires on, give it a tuneup, and put it into a real race.

A few pics:

[Jason Topp]

There's a municipal course in Des Moines, IA that sits on a wonderful property and is routed extremely well. The stretch from hole 2-8 is, topographically, about as good as anything I've played. The entire back 9 is really fantastic too.

Unfortunately, it's completely overgrown with trees and other vegetation. Iowa is very fertile, the course is over 100 years old, and RoundUp and chainsaws appear to have never been on the property. The result is some ridiculously choked playing corridors.

Jason - my childhood course - Waveland.  I probably have about 800 rounds experience there.  Your description is dead on point.  The course was altered to accomodate I235 in the 50's or 60's and it seems as if they dug out the greens and replaced them with big saucers while they were at it.  Tee to green it is a very good course (conditioning issues aside).  If you look, most holes have a garden spot in the fairway where it seems as if they just flattened the land at the ideal approach spot.  Unfortunately, since they installed fairway irrigation, many of those spots are now in the rough. 

The greens are interesting when they speed them up, but they cannot do that most of the time because of all the poa, shade and lack of air circulation.

The place could be restored to a fantastic classic era course but I wonder if that is the right thing to do.  Right now it provides very affordable golf.

[Terry Lavin]

Jason,

That is the poster child for tree planting run amok.

[Peter Pallotta]

What do you think about racing a Ferrari in a Soap Box Derby?  How much will you learn about the car?

Well, you get that new car smell at least, and also the envy of all those pretenders in BMWs and Volvos...which is nice.

[Jason Thurman]

Jason, I had a lot of fun at Waveland and played it several times while working in West Des Moines from August last year through April this year. It was effectively my home course during that time.

Do you know what was changed when they made room for I-235? I found that factoid in your post surprising, as I think the 16th is one of the best bunkerless holes I've ever played and it seems likely that it would have been compromised by alterations in that area of the property. In spite of that, they certainly didn't run out of room on that hole! The way the fairway uses the ridge on the left to essentially create a diagonal hazard off the tee just strikes me as brilliant.

I'd love to see it cleaned up around the edges, and particularly see the third hole "reclaimed." It's a really cool course.

Terry, I don't think many of the trees out there were planted. I would guess almost all have grown quite naturally since the course inception circa 1895. I do have a hard time understanding why they planted new bradford pears on the right side of 15 though (second to last photo).

[Jason Topp]

Do you know what was changed when they made room for I-235? I found that factoid in your post surprising, as I think the 16th is one of the best bunkerless holes I've ever played and it seems likely that it would have been compromised by alterations in that area of the property. In spite of that, they certainly didn't run out of room on that hole! The way the fairway uses the ridge on the left to essentially create a diagonal hazard off the tee just strikes me as brilliant.

Jason - 10 years ago they had aerial photos from before and after the changes in the bar.  I do not remember seeing them the last time I was there.  

I remember being told that the opening hole ran from an area near the current 14th tee through the valley to the extra green that sits between the current 10th and 18th fairways.  If you look closely you can see the tee area when you pass from 13 green to 14 tee.

 I agree that the 16th is a brilliant hole.  I would argue that the 4th, 7th, 8th, 12th and 15th are also very good to great golf holes.  There are also some clunkers including the 6th, 13 and 17.  14 used to be great until they added the par three tees in the middle of the fairway.  They did so because of complaints from neighborign houses on the left.  The hole played as a par 3 for a few years until they moved it back to a 4.  To protect the houses they let the trees near the tee grow to a point that one basically has to hit a duck hook to hit the fairway.  The green on that hole, however, is brilliant.

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