[RDecker]

As a Superintendent in Western New England dealing with both the aftermath of Hurricane Irene and the remnants of TS Lee I have been yet again reminded of how brilliant the Classic era architects (Ross in my case) were in the use of land forms (both manmade and natural) to accomplish both strategy/visibility and drainage.  My question is then how much of the classic era architects and their work was motivated and guided by drainage?  Certainly strategic design elements certainly had a large say in matters, but in a time when moving earth was so difficult and no real drainage hardware existed (pipe...) how much of the earth movement was motivated by the need to have playing surfaces, especially greens and tees drain well.  Was the split 50/50 or as I want to believe after the 10 or so inches of rain I've had in the last 10 or so days was the split more like 70/30 in favor of drainage.  What say you folks.

[Jeff_Mingay]

It actually amazes me, some times, that golf architects - past and present - are praised for producing golf courses that (surface) drain effectively.

To answer your question, Mr. Decker, I'm sure there's no coincidence that your golf course drains effectively because as he was devising playing strategies and playing interest, Mr. Ross was entirely - 110% - thinking about making sure to get water off playing areas, first and foremost. Any, and all golf architects worth their salt - past and present - ensure to get water off playing areas effectively first and foremost.

It's a matter of incorporating those slopes and contour needed to shed water effectively into attractive features that make for interesting golf that will make us - those of us practicing today, that is - a "Mr. Ross" reincarnate, as opposed to just some guy who built a golf course (that doesn't drain well).   

[Jeff_Brauer]

100% drainage, but drainage and strategy are in no way mutually exclusive.

[Peter Pallotta]

Very nice line, Jeff. One of those rare ones that seem both pithy and true. (Brad Klein had one a few days ago). I think I know what you mean, and it is an elegant and intriguing idea - so please explain/flesh it out some more when you get a chance.

And also a question, off of Jeff's post: did in fact most/all of those old courses by the old greats drain as well as we think/say they did? If not, why not/why the mistake?

Peter

[RDecker]

Soil type has a huge effect on how the drainage works, and with the heavier soils common to the Northeast, inland areas particularly, the surface drainage was really crucial because the water just doesn't go down that fast.  Considering the classic era architects learned their craft in the well drained sandy soils on GB it's impressive how quickly and well they adapted to working with the native heavy clay type soils found in america.

[Bradley Anderson]

You might be surprised by how much actual tile Ross put in to your course. Although in New England the soils are so rocky that he maybe didn't install as much as he did in the midwest courses - miles of tile.

[Mike_Young]

We are complicating this stuff again.  The ODG's built plenty of crap that didn't drain.  It is either erased or has been fixed.  For example take the landing area on #11 at Merion.  I would think the same scenario at many clubs might turn out to be a mud bog but being at the proper club it is a very acceptable well drained area.  We can all name top courses with areas that drain improperly but having had years to correct such usually takes care of the problem.  I think the thing we often forget is that in their day they only had to worry about draining golf.  Not draining roads and development onto the golf.  Sheet drainage on rolling land is one thing, flat land is another.

[Mark Luckhardt]

I have noticed over the years that Tillinghast greens that we have installed on, typically exhibit  two clay drain tiles on all greens at about 18" deep. No other classic architect was that consistent.
At least by the early 1900's the USGA has supported internal greens drainage on the old bathtub greens of golf's earlier era.

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