Building Smarter, NOT HARDER, Some thoughts from John Harbottle.

[Garland Bayley]

"For my money, Chambers Bay might do it best. It is wide open, has few forced carries, has a slope from the back tees of only 135 – and yet knocked the world’s best amateur players to their knees in last summer’s qualifying rounds for the U.S. Am when the average score of the field one day was 80."

http://www.thepnga.org/sites/courses/viewHeadlineNews.asp?id=235

[Garland Bayley]

I hope people didn't overlook this thread and the linked article, because they thought it was just me promoting Chambers Bay again. So I'll bump it just this one time.

I started the thread, because we don't hear too much from or about Harbottle here. Here's a quote directly from him.

“Variety is more important than mere length, and interest more important than difficulty. I think we are clearly seeing a trend back toward Golden Era values in today's new designs and renovations. They are simply more playable, maintainable and sustainable.”

[Anthony Gray]

I hope people didn't overlook this thread and the linked article, because they thought it was just me promoting Chambers Bay again. So I'll bump it just this one time.

I started the thread, because we don't hear too much from or about Harbottle here. Here's a quote directly from him.

“Variety is more important than mere length, and interest more important than difficulty. I think we are clearly seeing a trend back toward Golden Era values in today's new designs and renovations. They are simply more playable, maintainable and sustainable.”

  This quote sums up how I rate a course. I agree 100%. Cruden Bay is not long has the most variety in golf and tons of interest.

  Anthony

[Pete Lavallee]

Perhaps the key to interesting golf is to have the intials CB for the golf course!

[Garland Bayley]

Perhaps the key to interesting golf is to have the intials CB for the golf course!

10-4 big buddy!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

call Mike Young  He is one of several the wise GCA men on this subject

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

I can't help but partially think those are empty words.  If he truly were about Golden Age values, then why did he build such flat greens at Palouse Ridge, when that place screamed out for undulating ones to match the rest of the course and the site for that matter.

This is just my opinion, but I think he gave in to the stimp meter race combined with the fact that it'll host a lot D1 golf play where the players would whine like babies thats its unfair if they had undulating greens.  But perhaps they just take thier cues from the big boys on Tour.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

I can't help but partially think those are empty words.  If he truly were about Golden Age values, then why did he build such flat greens at Palouse Ridge, when that place screamed out for undulating ones to match the rest of the course and the site for that matter.

This is just my opinion, but I think he gave in to the stimp meter race combined with the fact that it'll host a lot D1 golf play where the players would whine like babies thats its unfair if they had undulating greens.  But perhaps they just take thier cues from the big boys on Tour.

Marching orders

When I played there, I couldn't help think his design had to be influenced by a PAC-10 college that would be least able to recruit golfers. Perhaps he thought one way would be flat greens to help weak putters equalize with better players. Or, hitting approaches from bad angles?

[David Kelly]

Harbottle's work at Brookside Golf Course in Pasadena has been pretty unimpressive and they have spent a lot of money on the renovations.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

I can't help but partially think those are empty words.  If he truly were about Golden Age values, then why did he build such flat greens at Palouse Ridge, when that place screamed out for undulating ones to match the rest of the course and the site for that matter.

This is just my opinion, but I think he gave in to the stimp meter race combined with the fact that it'll host a lot D1 golf play where the players would whine like babies thats its unfair if they had undulating greens.  But perhaps they just take thier cues from the big boys on Tour.

Marching orders

When I played there, I couldn't help think his design had to be influenced by a PAC-10 college that would be least able to recruit golfers. Perhaps he thought one way would be flat greens to help weak putters equalize with better players. Or, hitting approaches from bad angles?

Well that's what I was thinking even if I didn't go as far to speculate thats what actually happened.

 I understand its a balancing act to give the customer what they want, vs putting the best course in the ground...but it seems like they could have compromised to have at least have somewhat interesting greens.