US Women's Open--Broadmoor East

[Doug Wright]

Broadmoor East should be a pretty tough track for the women this weekend. As those who've played it know, the greens can be diabolical due to the mountain break. A knowledgeable local caddy (or even a member serving as one) would help a ton there.

Will be interesting to see how the USGA sets up the course. For the US Senior Open a couple years ago, I thought the course was really set up easy--the fairways were really firm, which shortened the course considerably, and the greens were not that firm. The card on the USGA website says the yardage for the women today is 7047. I think that's pretty long for the ladies even at altitude unless--like the seniors--the fairways are super fast. I've played it at 7300 and damp and it was damn long. Those who start the round on the back 9 have a very difficult set of opening holes:  460 [severely downhill though] 440 223 [severely downhill though] 450 413 432 These are on the Robert Trent Jones side of the course (as you may know, half the course is Ross and half the course--the much tougher half--is RTJ).

[George Pazin]

Several of the women were making a big deal yesterday on TGC about how difficult the greens are, some even felt they were tougher than Oakmont's... no comment.

Am I crazy, or should altitude have a less significant impact on the women? I'd think they don't hit it as high as the guys, so the thinner air would have less influence.

[Doug Wright]

Am I crazy, or should altitude have a less significant impact on the women? I'd think they don't hit it as high as the guys, so the thinner air would have less influence.

I'd say that is correct George.

The Broadmoor greens--like other mountain courses I've played but for some reason even moreso--are so tough because, unlike flatland courses where you can generally see the break and judge the speed, it is a total guessing game about how much break to play and at what speeds.

[Bill_McBride]

Am I crazy, or should altitude have a less significant impact on the women? I'd think they don't hit it as high as the guys, so the thinner air would have less influence.

I'd say that is correct George.

The Broadmoor greens--like other mountain courses I've played but for some reason even moreso--are so tough because, unlike flatland courses where you can generally see the break and judge the speed, it is a total guessing game about how much break to play and at what speeds.

Always keep the location of the carillon on the mountain in your mind!    Downhill putts will appear to be uphill otherwise.   The secret is in the bells!

[Doug Wright]

Am I crazy, or should altitude have a less significant impact on the women? I'd think they don't hit it as high as the guys, so the thinner air would have less influence.

I'd say that is correct George.

The Broadmoor greens--like other mountain courses I've played but for some reason even moreso--are so tough because, unlike flatland courses where you can generally see the break and judge the speed, it is a total guessing game about how much break to play and at what speeds.

Always keep the location of the carillon on the mountain in your mind!    Downhill putts will appear to be uphill otherwise.   The secret is in the bells!

I wish it were that simple Bill!

[Bill_McBride]

Am I crazy, or should altitude have a less significant impact on the women? I'd think they don't hit it as high as the guys, so the thinner air would have less influence.

I'd say that is correct George.

The Broadmoor greens--like other mountain courses I've played but for some reason even moreso--are so tough because, unlike flatland courses where you can generally see the break and judge the speed, it is a total guessing game about how much break to play and at what speeds.

Always keep the location of the carillon on the mountain in your mind!    Downhill putts will appear to be uphill otherwise.   The secret is in the bells!

I wish it were that simple Bill!

But it's a good start!   Everything definitely breaks away from the mountain, even if it looks flat.   The rest is just......very complex!

[Doug Wright]

Am I crazy, or should altitude have a less significant impact on the women? I'd think they don't hit it as high as the guys, so the thinner air would have less influence.

I'd say that is correct George.

The Broadmoor greens--like other mountain courses I've played but for some reason even moreso--are so tough because, unlike flatland courses where you can generally see the break and judge the speed, it is a total guessing game about how much break to play and at what speeds.

Always keep the location of the carillon on the mountain in your mind!    Downhill putts will appear to be uphill otherwise.   The secret is in the bells!

I wish it were that simple Bill!

But it's a good start!   Everything definitely breaks away from the mountain, even if it looks flat.   The rest is just......very complex!

Agreed Bill. We call being above the hole with no way to stop the putt being "Shrined" for the Will Rogers Shrine. 

http://www.cmzoo.org/aboutZoo/history/willRogersShrine.asp

[Garland Bayley]

Am I crazy, or should altitude have a less significant impact on the women? I'd think they don't hit it as high as the guys, so the thinner air would have less influence.

I'd say that is correct George.

The Broadmoor greens--like other mountain courses I've played but for some reason even moreso--are so tough because, unlike flatland courses where you can generally see the break and judge the speed, it is a total guessing game about how much break to play and at what speeds.

I too agree that George is crazy. The reason the guys hit it higher is because the ball speed is faster. That simply means that for a given launch angle the ball will travel farther up before running out of gas. The altitude should have the same % effect on women as on men. A guess would be that the men hit it about 50 yards farther with driver on average. At 10% for altitude, that means 5 yards per shot. Or, that a course should be lengthened about 150 yards more for men than it would be for women at an altitude giving a 10% increase.

[George Pazin]

 

Don't confuse carry distance with total distance.

[Doug Wright]

Play suspended @ 12:45 and they're done for the day due to thunderstorms. Less than half the field done with Day 1 will mess up the tourney.

Here is info from the USGA:

Green Speeds – This morning’s green speeds averaged 11½ feet on the USGA Stimpmeter, which will likely settle out as is due to the trend we have seen in these greens the last couple of days.

Rough – The closer-in first cut of rough (3¼” and 3¾” on the long and short approach-shot holes) along the fairway was mown late yesterday afternoon in a direction from tee to green.  The further-out longer second cut was not mown.       

Water Management – Given the very hot and arid climate with low humidity, we have done some nightly irrigation to certain areas of the golf course.  Golf course will generally start out on the softer side and will firm up throughout the day.

Total Course Yardage for Thursday (tee marker settings to flagstick) = 3,457 yards out; 3,569 yards in = 7,026 total yards