How many courses were designed by a gca?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Got asked this in a casual conversation by a non golfer yesterday.

He was surprised to hear there are 16,000 courses in the US to start.  But then, he had the idea (for no particular reason) that most would be mom and pop affairs, rather than a Jeff Brauer or Jack Nicklaus design.

I have a call to Ron Whitten to see if his book breaks it down, but I keep thinking about the question.

How many of our 16,000 courses were originally designed by an architect who would qualify to be in the pages of the Architects of Golf?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Who is Jeff Brauer, more importantly CAN he design golf courses?  But yes know of Nicklaus, but did Jack ever really design a course, I mean the whole thing not just sign off the design done by others.

Still this Jeff guy intrigues me must find out more about him.

By the way why do we have to keep using the term ARCHITECTS when it should be DESIGNERS.

Melvyn

[A.G._Crockett]

Jeff,
Interesting question.  

I've seen listing of the courses here in Georgia and been surprised at how many do not list a GCA.  I had the same experience looking at a list of courses in the western part of Virginia, and I don't have any reason to think it would be otherwise elsewhere.  I think as you get farther from the beaten path that becomes more true, and more true for munis, 9 holers, etc.  

My guess, and it is only a guess, would be that if you divide the 16,000 into two groups, one maybe pre-1975 and one since 1975, the ratio would flip, and probably dramatically.

[A.G._Crockett]

By the way why do we have to keep using the term ARCHITECTS when it should be DESIGNERS.

Melvyn

I'll assume this is tongue in cheek, and not bother to quote dictionaries of the English language.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Yeah, the designer vs architect question has come up before, in a different context, but for reasons of this thread, I wasn't really making a distinction.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Melvyn - Please be more constructive

I'll guess there are a large number of courses designed by members, planners, farmers, locals...
I've seen a ton of really bad designs.

I'm doing some improvements to one designed by a local planner - it is only 20 years old.
He had very little understanding of designing and building a golf course - and many, many people still enjoy it.

Cheers

[Melvyn Morrow]

Whoever designs a course must surely be defined as a Designer. The very nature of the act
defines the word. However an architect has general overall authority of the project but IS not responsible for more than the design of the shell, pulling together a team responsible for specific planning and services specification. Example in a Hotel the Architect in not responsible for the design of say The Kitchens, air con, ventilation, lifts, etc, etc, but oversees these designs and installations.

So my point is if you are a door to door salesman and design your own course, you are still the designers even if you also built the course, as surely you could not be defined as an Architect.

So every course will have a designer who will not necessary be an architect, although it seem that the big design houses in golf design are now acting as architectural practices and no longer the designer.

This I believe is also backed up by the lack of the names being proposed for the design, just using the name of the design company who acted as Architects.

Yet I firmly believe that the designer be named, his involvement defined and must include being responsible for the routing. But an architect does not make a designer due to the weight of responsibility for the whole complex. WE need to protect the designer, therefore his name should be known – well that’s MHO.

Can’t think why some worry about my English, as I thought I was Scottish

Melvyn

PS  Mike why should I be more constructive, I'm a designer not an architect, but is that not what we golfers should actually be saying to you designers or is it architects - you must do better