The Sahara at NGLA

[Anthony Gray]

  Is it fair for the medium length driver? The long hitter can challenge the green. The short hitter can play to the fairway on the right but the other guy's tee ball goes over the hill and runs all the way down into the second cut.

  ?

[Alex Miller]

Don't hit driver.

[George_Bahto]

Anthony:   FAIR - where and when does that come into the game

[Jeff Taylor]

Unfair only if one is entitled to hit driver on all non par 3 holes. I hit rescue. Didn't stop me from making double.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Anthony:   FAIR - where and when does that come into the game

George,

Couldn't agree more.

Anthony,

I would disagree with your premise.

The intermediate hitter has plenty of room to the right for a tee shot of 150 to 200.

If the intermediate hitter can carry 200, albeit uphill, he'll only have an approach of 60 yards.
Now, I'm assuming your intermediate hitter is playing the appropriate tees, the green tees, wherein the hole is ONLY 270 yards.

And, even if the intermediate hitter was to blast one down into the hollow as you claim, they would only have a 30-50 yard recovery to a huge, flat green, so, unless you or one of your playing partners suffered this fate, I don't see the problem you present.

The genius of NGLA is the ability for golfers of varying abilities to play different routes to the green.

The intermediate hitter isn't supposed to take the same route that the big hitter takes.
The intermediate hitter isn't supposed to be playing the same tees the big hitter plays.

"A" Key to playing NGLA well is the ability to play it in your head before trying to play it with your I&B.

[George_Bahto]

National was one of the first courses in that era with multiple tees.

Mr. Macdonald’s idea for the multiple tees was that players of different skills could play a tee appropriate to their game and play matches against better or lesser players playing from their appropriate tee, each player still be face the general strategies of the hole they are playing, without giving out shots.

I guess he hated giving shots

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony:   FAIR - where and when does that come into the game

George,

Couldn't agree more.

Anthony,

I would disagree with your premise.

The intermediate hitter has plenty of room to the right for a tee shot of 150 to 200.

If the intermediate hitter can carry 200, albeit uphill, he'll only have an approach of 60 yards.
Now, I'm assuming your intermediate hitter is playing the appropriate tees, the green tees, wherein the hole is ONLY 270 yards.

And, even if the intermediate hitter was to blast one down into the hollow as you claim, they would only have a 30-50 yard recovery to a huge, flat green, so, unless you or one of your playing partners suffered this fate, I don't see the problem you present.

The genius of NGLA is the ability for golfers of varying abilities to play different routes to the green.

The intermediate hitter isn't supposed to take the same route that the big hitter takes.
The intermediate hitter isn't supposed to be playing the same tees the big hitter plays.

"A" Key to playing NGLA well is the ability to play it in your head before trying to play it with your I&B.

  Pat....I don't see how a ball holds the fairway straight over the hill. The hill is so steep you're in the rough. And who wants to hit  a 150 club off the tee on a par 4?

 Anthony

[Jeff Taylor]

Who wants to hit a 150 club off the tee?

Someone that believes it is the best way to play that hole on that day. Are you really suggesting that #2 is not a great golf hole?

[George_Bahto]

  - anthony, you're in trouble here

[Sebonac]

Depending on where you hit from....it certainly is more than 150 to carry the right and be on the fairway down in the bowl on that side.  But at times..a strong pushed drive will go through into the long stuff...and you are penalized. 

[Anthony Gray]

Who wants to hit a 150 club off the tee?

Someone that believes it is the best way to play that hole on that day. Are you really suggesting that #2 is not a great golf hole?

  It is for the mid range driver. The Sahara at Old Mac is much better because of that. The tee shot is somewhat like a cape tee shot in that you have to decide how much of the obstacle you want to take on.

  Anthony

[Alex Miller]

Next you'll be complaining about 120 yard par 3s that don't promote long iron approaches. Give me a break!

[Anthony Gray]

Next you'll be complaining about 120 yard par 3s that don't promote long iron approaches. Give me a break!

  No, I love those even though its the same distance as the tee shot at NGLA.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

  i

[Alex Miller]

Next you'll be complaining about 120 yard par 3s that don't promote long iron approaches. Give me a break!

  No, I love those even though its the same distance as the tee shot at NGLA.

  Anthony

You missed my point. A golf hole doesn't HAVE to be any length or promote any specific length of shot. If you can't hit the shot you're used to, don't hit it. That doesn't mean there's a problem with the hole, it means there's a problem with you.

[Anthony Gray]

Next you'll be complaining about 120 yard par 3s that don't promote long iron approaches. Give me a break!

  No, I love those even though its the same distance as the tee shot at NGLA.

  Anthony

You missed my point. A golf hole doesn't HAVE to be any length or promote any specific length of shot. If you can't hit the shot you're used to, don't hit it. That doesn't mean there's a problem with the hole, it means there's a problem with you.

  My feelings are hurt.

  Anthony

[Jeff Taylor]

Interesting point at about the Old Mac Sahara. I never considered hitting any club besides driver off the tee. I hit two different shots but they ended up within 20 yards of each other. I did consider where the ball would end up when playing the NGLA Sahara. Not sure why I approached them differently.

[Tom_Doak]

For what it's worth, the original Sahara [at Royal St. George's] was a diagonal driving line ... you could bite off as much as you wanted, but the approach angle was harder if you bailed out.

The second at National is different.  You either have to go for the green, or play way out to the right to the upper part of the fairway.  If you hedge in-between, you're down the slot in deep rough way below the green.

[Rick Shefchik]

National was one of the first courses in that era with multiple tees.

Mr. Macdonald’s idea for the multiple tees was that players of different skills could play a tee appropriate to their game and play matches against better or lesser players playing from their appropriate tee, each player still be face the general strategies of the hole they are playing, without giving out shots.

I guess he hated giving shots

George, this is something I've thought about for a long time. I'd think the game would be more enjoyable for many people if they played matches from shorter tees than their more skilled opponent -- particularly if the major source of their ability difference is power. As I age and my handicap creeps up, I think I'd prefer competing against younger, stronger players by moving up several hundred yards, rather than making bogeys and double bogies from the same tee and claiming victory because the scorecard gives me a shot or two.