Royal St. George's Golf Club

[Ran Morrissett]

What are its weaknesses?

Actually, that's just the politically correct way of saying "Does it have any weaknesses?"  

Bernard Darwin (club president from 1952-1961) and Sir Peter Allen didn't seem to think so. I think Paul Turner agrees with them and I know I do.

Yes, 2, 5, 7, and 13 bend to the left while only the 12th goes the other way. And the set of one shotters, though good, wouldn't be confused for being in the class as those down the way at Rye.

Still, inbetween its thrilling front nine through the massive dunes and the tough test that the back always puts up, RSG seems as perfect a links as one could hope to find.

Always regarded as an awesome driving test, what surprised us was the series of varied and interesting green placements. Greens on top of dunes like 4 and 10 cause havoc for the best while others like the 15th shrug balls off and leave difficult recovery shots while others like the 14th are a perfect extension of the fairway.

Speaking of the 14th, isn't it one of the more nervy three shotters in the game (how good was Norman's Sunday drive there in '93!)? The pressure on that tee shot with OB hard right is enormous, especially given that the OB is in such stark contrast with the expansiveness of the rest of the course.

RSG certainly has its nay-sayers and I would be curious to hear what those specific reservations are. The traditionalist may even wish that a few more of Dr Purves's cross-bunkers had been preserved or that the amazing Hades green had been retained. But overall, I think most would agree that its current form of today is the finest of the three versions that the club has seen.

Cheers,

[Paul Turner]

Well said Ran!

And you're right I do agree with them; whatever my opinion is worth.

After the roller coaster outward 9, I wonder if some find the flatter, inward 9 lacking a little in comparison.  But I don't agree with that point of view, the two 9s compliment each other perfectly.

I agree with you on the par 3s.  An excellent set, but not in Rye's class.

I loved the 8,9,10 stretch.  Tom Doak's research into Mackenzie's design of the 9th green was enlightening.

Beautiful greens and plenty of quirk too.  The 12th is a good example.

Favourite hole: the 13th

PS

The club does have a bit of a snobby reputation.  But it was quite jolly when I visited.

Was the Hades green the old 3rd?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

The greatness weakness of RSG has to be the loss of the Maiden!

I say bring back the Maiden! Even Bernie Darwin (another one of my heroes) mentions of its demise, with sadness in Golf Courses of The British Isles, and while its loss was somewhat justified by the growing popularity of the game and the course itself, (A very dangerous spot for the tee.) nothing will ever duplicate the fear of the look of that tee shot!

[Mark_Fine]

I love RSG and it could be the best and most underrated test of links golf in the Open circuit.    
  

[Paul Daley]

Wish I could contribute to the thread but I haven't played this great links. It caught my eye because only today, I played golf with Charles Black, and ex- Royal St George's Captain - very British you know; stiff upper-lip and all that, but a few beers later, a brilliant kind of guy.

Having just sold his publishing company to the crowd that published Harry Potter, he is a man of leisure. So Charles
flew over to watch the Australian Open Tennis, and wanted a game at the National GC (Moonah Course). We showed him the way around, and he and his partner repaid the compliment by trouncing us 6/5

[Ran Morrissett]

Paul,

Can you think of a finer consecutive pair of sub-400 yard links holes than 9 and 10 at RSG? I can't in part because they have the advantage of running in opposite directions and also in part as you say because MacKenzie's back shelf on 9 is pure magic.

Hades was Dr. Purves's 200 yard one shot 8th hole with the name deriving from the giant bunker that fronted the green. The green itself had a big hump in it and every photograph that I've seen is big time inspiring. However, the new 8th is such a fine (!) hole that no one seems to lament the loss of Hades. Oh well....

I think Darwin's biggest regret if he saw the course today would be that the blind, drivable 3rd Sahara hole finally was replaced. The original 3d was 30 yards to the right of the existing 3rd but I didn't know that when I was there, and  have no sense as to how good Darwin's beloved Sahara must have been. Do you? Still, Pennick's hole is a fine addition, with an added benefit being that each of the one shotters runs in a different direction (though 6 and 16 are somewhat close).


Tommy,

The 6th must have been truly terrifying    pre-Haskell with the tee ball having to clear the highest point of the Maiden sand dune.  However, post Haskell the Club keep sliding the 6th tee further to the golfer's right and back toward the sea, thus the golfer 'only' had to hit over the shoulder of the Maiden.  (Interestingly enough, Purves named the hole Jungfrau). Before the final change to the hole, it almost sounded like the 200 yard Maiden ressembled 15 at Cruden Bay   , in which case it's just as well that it bit the dust.

And as you note, as appealing as Jungfrau must have been seeing your ball carry the summit "steep, sandy and terrible, with her face scarred and seamed with black timbers", the original 5th was a dog of a hole. By moving the 6th tee to its present location, the today's 5th could be created, which is another fine hole and a huge improvement over its predecessors.

Despite all the work/modifications that have taken place there for over 100 years, the holes still work so well together - I wonder what lessons can be learned there?

Cheers,


PS Did anyone know that Herbert Fowler, J.F. Abercromby, Cecil Hutchison and Guy Campbell were all members?! It's always fun finding what courses enjoyed the best followings way back when - be it RSG or Westward Ho!, such places in the UK invariably warrant equally strong passion today.

[ChipOat]

2 VERY loyal Royal Dornoch members I know say that St. George's is the only other course in Britain that could possibly be considered RDGC's equal.

Pretty high praise, indeed.

[Paul Turner]

Ran

I don't know much about the history of Sandwich, so I can't help with your question about the 3rd.  But I did notice that Steel dismisses it as having "no architectural merit".

I'd love to see a photo of the Hades hole.  If you can scan a copy and mail it to me, I will post it here.

Frank Pennink was an accomplished architect.  He doesn't have a lot of famous original courses in his resume (Woburn and Saunton West are the only semi-famous ones I've seen).  But his redesign work at Sandwich and Hoylake is top notch.  He was some traveller too.  I think he might have courses in more different countries than any other architect.

Purves named the Maiden, Jungfrau, that's interesting ( I guess after the famous mountain in Switzerland?).