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TEPaul

Strategic vs just plain hard
« on: January 27, 2002, 05:43:14 AM »
I was reading the thread on the best seventeen hole course and the speculation of what MacKenzie (and Hollins) intended on #18 CPC! It seems evident they wanted a very demanding finishing hole! Maybe one a little devoid of what some of us might consider strategy!

It's occured to me for sometime that some of us might not be looking at what a strategic hole really is in some cases, at least compared to the way some of the "Golden Age" architects considered what a strategic hole is!

I believe a lot of us look at a strategic hole as one where a good player (a long player or whatever) takes a risk for a commensurate reward to make securing a par or a birdie a bit more likely and another player (shorter or not quite so good) forgoes that risk (for whatever reason) to work a little harder on his next shot(s) for his par (or birdie). And furthermore I beleive that we look at the strategy of the second player as one where he's likely to achieve a GIR with his strategy of a bit more work.

I'm recognizing that many of these older architects, particularly MacKenzie, Tillinghast and Flynn intended to make some holes and courses far more difficult than they had previously been to really test the good player! In other words the good player had to work really hard just to secure GIR or par! So where did that leave the second player, the shorter or less risk oriented player in their minds? It left him with an expected bogie, plain and simple!

I think the reason we're misreading their strategic intentions and the ramifications of their planned strategies far too much today is because of the far more prevalent perception and expectation of GIR by far too many players today compared to their day!

I see this in some of the articles by Tillinghast when he reacts to someone like J.H. Taylor's criticisms of some of the new (teens and 1920s) courses in America and the alarming difficulty of some of their holes! I definitely see it in Flynn's writings about strategy and demands--and I can even see it in some of Crump's architectural planning!

Today the less good player (the handicapper) seems to expect to make par (and GIR) far more than yesteryear to put pressure on the good player to offset him with a birdie! Back then it's clear the expectation was for the handicapper to make bogie to offset the good player's par on these types of holes!

This is also how the actual concept of par fits in with the entire concept of handicapping anyway. Par was the architect's expectation for the expert player and the handicapping was that the less good player could offset that to even things out--and that would be with a bogie!!

Or to put it another way the "Golden Age" architect would likely not agree with the handicapper's prevalent expectation today that on these types of holes a strategy must be offered where the handicapper could manage GIR with a few good shots strung together! The "Golden Ager" looked at the strategies of some difficult holes that way but only for the expert player!!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: Strategic vs just plain hard
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2002, 07:08:29 AM »
Tom

Some of the great gambling par 5s offer a different kind of strategy.  After taking a gamble with the tee shot, these holes offer the option of taking an even GREATER risk, to get home in two.  This kind of hole can play havoc with the good player's mind.   He risks the perfect tee shot and wants to take advantage of his position, but to do so, he's faced with an even riskier option to the green (or he chickens out and gets home in 3).  The hole doesn't let up, it just gets harder for the stronger player!  

It's very different from the usual strategy of an easier approach after the perfect tee shot.

The very best example of this type of hole is the 8th at Royal West Norfolk.  If want a description, Tom Doak profiles it in Anatomy of a Golf Course. It's the perfect combination of a strategic and heroic hole :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Strategic vs just plain hard
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2002, 07:50:33 AM »
Paul:

Yes, you're just describing some of the best of the short par 5s that are very much of the "go/no go" theme (ANGC's #13), where the tee shot just sets up the basic gambling aspect of the entire hole--to go or not--which is the overall strategy of the concept!

These seem to work best in stroke play today in tournament context! One of the most sophisticated and interesting takes on this type of hole was from Hogan when asked why he layed up on ANGC's #13: "Because I didn't really think I needed an eagle!"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Strategic vs just plain hard
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2002, 10:38:31 AM »
That is such a good point - that the expert player expects to hit the greens and make pars and must shape his strategy to that end.  On the other hand, a player of my abilility (12-14 handicap for 30 years after single digit during college years) will miss a lot of shots trying to achieve the required strategy. So the necessary strategy becomes hitting as many shots as possible in position to get up and down, and working on that part of the game as much or more as the long game. That difference between expert and non-expert, and the system of handicapping match play, is what makes golf the greatest game.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »