CC Of Detroit - Well, whats the story?

[Sean_A]

Is the work finished?  If so, how did it turn out?  What exactly was done?

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

The work was finished last fall, but since we rebuilt all 18 greens, the course has yet to reopen.  The opening event is June 24th.  I haven't been down there this spring to see how it all looks, but I'll be glad to report back after the opening.

Basically, we rebuilt and recontoured all 18 greens in place, with the exception of #17 green which was redesigned and moved about 50 yards back and to the right, towards the polo field.  That 17th green was a strange duck ... it was a 470-yard par 5, and Robert Trent Jones had built an odd, raised, fallaway green for it in the 1950's to try and "protect par".  It didn't fit in with any of the other greens on the course, and the hole was playing so short now that we recommended either to convert it to a par-4 or to move the green ... the club preferred the latter approach.

The greens had all been redone in the 1990's and all of the original contours lost, and there was no real documentation of what was there on the Colt and Alison course -- plus, some members insisted that the original greens weren't very special anyway, just back-to-front pitched and draining to the front.  So, we were told to wing it on making a new set of interesting greens, while keeping as much of the greenside bunkering and drainage points intact as we could.  [Keith Foster had redone the bunkering 4-5 years ago, and they didn't want to go through the expense or the politics of changing bunkers again.  We did change the bunkering on #17 fairway and #18 fairway, though.] 

We had a free hand on the greens, and with Brian Slawnik and Eric Iverson doing all the shaping, it went very quickly.  It was a fun exercise, and I think we made a much more interesting set of greens, although the course will not look that different to someone who didn't know it well ... I am curious what the reaction will be.  It's a pretty subtle set of greens, for us.

[Sean_A]

Tom

Cheers.  I notice you mention that the greens are very different from previously, but still subtle for you lot.  Did the team draw on Colt/Alison courses they knew well or just concentrate on getting the most they could with the bunkers?  Did the team find it hard not to alter the bunkers?  What are some of the issues in doing greens without moving bunkers - sounds like it could be tricky to me?

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

Despite our work at Milwaukee CC, I wouldn't say I know enough about Alison to build a bunch of "typical Alison" greens, so we just winged it within the confines we had.  [And it's really an Alison course; only a few of Colt's holes from before W.W. I survived, and I'm not sure that any of his greens did.]  To keep the old-school feel, we limited ourselves to not creating many tiers on the greens ... there are maybe 4 or 5 which have some sort of shelf, but most greens are 90% pinnable, which was important because most of the greens are fairly small.

The trick in doing greens without moving bunkers is that you are limited to certain drainage points that are clearly spelled out, since you don't want to drain the greens off into the bunkers.  In several cases, there were bunkers on both flanks of the green, so most of the drainage had to come out the front, although we did change a couple to where a good portion of the green drains off the back instead.  And anywhere we could get the drainage to go off the side -- between bunkers or behind one -- you can be pretty sure we took advantage.  You have to use opportunities like that if you want to build a course that rewards players who are on the proper side of the fairway, or who control their misses to the safer side of the green.

I don't think there are many individual greens there that people will talk about, but I think it's a very good set of 18.

[George Freeman]

I played the course 2-3 years ago and enjoyed it quite a bit.  Old school/old money course and club; it's a neat setting.  I'd be interested to see the course now with the new greens.

Tom - What is your opinion of Keith Foster's bunker work there?  What would you have changed if you had the opportunity to (either in the initial renovation of the bunkers or during your work on the greens)?

[Tom_Doak]

George:

Keith's work there was very good.  I'm sure we would have done a few holes differently, but then again, he may have had specific marching orders from the membership.  He moved a lot of fairway bunkers to 260-280 yards off the tee, and didn't build many short of that for the members to try and hit over.

We did do all new bunkering on the par-5 17th since it's a new hole now, and one of the bunkers we did add was a short fairway bunker on the right there.  We also changed the bunkering on the 18th hole, moving bunkers to the inside of the dogleg after a big tree went down that guarded the inside corner.  You can hit over those, but you'd better hit it good!

[George Freeman]

Thanks Tom.  Bunkers on the inside of the 18th dogleg are definitely preferable to the old bunkers on the outside of the dogleg.

For 17, did you move the green back and to the right?  I'm looking at Google Maps and it looks like if you went directly back, you'd run into the 18th tee.  If you did go back and right, it looks like it would add a little right bend to the hole?  Were you forced to remove the trees short and right of the old green?

[Tom_Doak]

Back and a bit to the right, with some clearing.  We actually kept most of the bunker across the front of the old 17th green, and you kind of have to play over the right corner of it if you are going for the new green in two.

The tee for #18 moved well to the left (left of old 17 green) and got just a little bit shorter.

[Bill Hyde]

I am a member at CCD and we are really excited about the work Tom, Eric, and Brian did. In fact, I am putting together the printed piece that describes the project and the changes for our re-opening in a few weeks. We just finished photography, but it is really hard to capture what has ben done on film so that people can see the changes. We are on a flat piece of land, so it's not like to picture of Eastward Ho on the GCA home page when you see our course in photos. The greens are subtle, but still dramatic. Some of the highlights for me: #3 - removed a lot of trees about 125 short of green on left, added a bunker there, and rebuilt the green so everything falls back and right. It will be tough to hold this 500+/- par 5 in two, and the new bunker will make the layup more interesting depending on pin position. #4 - stretched back tee another 25 yards, cleaned up forest on right and Doak's team created a dramatic false front to this green with lots of pinning options (this green was formerly typical of the course with 3 pinnable areas on a 5000' surface). #5 - stretched back tee to 245 on this par 3 - Doak extended the green about 20 feet closer to the tee with lots of green now between the front bunkers, which did not exist as an option before. This green is long and narrow now with a dramatic ridge in the middle - very tough hole. #7 - dramatic left-toright cant on this surface...new back tee offers a slightly blind tee shot and stretches hole about 10 yards. #13 - repositioned tee emphasizes the subtle Redan here. #14 - left bunker removed and replaced with a collection area - green enlarged a bit. #17 - entirely new hole with a great look from the tee. Doak left the former right side of green bunker about 50 yards short which is on the same horizon line as new green. It looks spectacular from the tee - the new bunker in the middle of the fairway is more visual than penal, but it makes the hole dramatic. The green is very small, set on an angle that is best approached from the right side - it has a neat little bunker on the left side with a dramatic falloff on the left front of the green forcing everything short left into the sand. #18 - the old tee was moved to its original position to the left, cutting down the angle of the dogleg. The removal of the trees on the right (and one of the left bunkers) makes the hole much more beautiful and challenging at the same time. Overall, about 400 trees were removed, there are spectacular views of the course everywhere now - you can actually see the course now! Even better, you are not penalized by trees when on the wrong side of fairway (i.e. 3 and 18). I will post pics (or a link to the brochure) as soon as I get a chance.

[George Freeman]

Thanks for the synopsis Bill.  Sounds like big improvements were made!

[Sean_A]

Tom & Bill

Thanks for the input.  I think opening up interior views will do wonders for the course as is the case for a huge percentage of Metro Detroit clubs. 

Good luck with the reopening of the club!

Ciao

[Brian Joines]

Bill, thanks for the updates.

Do you know how many trees were ultimately removed?

While browsing through the archives at my club (South Bend CC), I found a letter that had been sent to us from CC of Detroit in 1981. It is a four page letter from a Mr. Ralph Mcelvenny, detailing their reforestation campaign and the work of their tree committee. He was very proud of their work and recommended that our club follow the same program, which we soon did. The tree committee at CCD had already added 400 trees by 1981 so I am sure there were plenty that needed to go. 

We have slowly started to remove trees at our club but have a long way to go. I think it would be nice to tell our board that the work done at CC of Detroit by the "tree committee" that we emulated, also had to be undone.