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David Harshbarger

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World Class Short Courses
« on: May 21, 2011, 10:36:56 AM »
Up here on my farm in the Saratoga Springs, NY area there 20+ acres of land pretty much doing nothing more than breeding deer ticks.  I have a dream of putting in some golf holes, and as I put pen to paper to frame up my aspirations, out came the phrase "World Class Short Course".  That summed up what I would want to pour my heart into: a course on my little farm, using the terrain I have, of indeterminate number of holes, with multiple teeing grounds, where every shot and every hole sends your heart pounding and blood racing, a course so richly and densely filled with golf's essence all sins of size and site are forgiven.

(Some of these questions are commercial in nature as I don't know if I would make a business out of this idea or not.)

To get there much ground needs to be covered, not least of which is having an idea of what I measuring myself up against. So, it would help me no end if folks would offer examples of the World Class Short Courses they have played.

Thanks in advance, Dave

What are examples of World Class Short Courses? 

What about the course(s) made them world class?

Were their characteristics you felt only a short course could provide?

What characteristics detract from a short course?

When and why would you play a short course if there were comparable full courses nearby?

How far would you travel to play one?

Was the course part of a larger complex?

Do you know anyone else who has embarked on this crazy idea?

The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2011, 12:03:25 PM »
David, Here's a link to my friend Edward's project. He's done all the work himself over this 39 yr. old abandoned quarry, which sits on less than 20 acres. He created that pond by extending an existing one. He even dealt with the water management bureaucracy, himself, to do it.

It's maintained with bermuda grass, just to keep everything in place, and there's wonderful crushed limestone under most if not all of the prospective green and tee sites. Just before leaving this spring for his home in Chicago, heavy rains pounded the area. To Edward's credit, the place drained beautifully and not a single aspect flooded.

Edward knows he doesn't have the resources to build this place right. But he has it already to go, for someone who does. To finish, all someone would need to do is bring in fill, lay out irrigation and sculpt the golf features. (pump and clubhouse/lodge, of course)

The site constraints by the county are that a public facility is out of the question. But a private one is possible.

I feel strongly that if someone were to build on the Little Diamond, it would be a great place to be have a winter hideout, with your own short course in the back yard. Since the quarry is so peaceful, down in the bowl, and just stunningly natural, it would be a marvelous escape for people who need that .


http://www.littlediamondclub.com/

Here's a look from where the first tee and clubhouse balcony should ultimately be.

 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 12:09:47 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2011, 01:03:22 PM »
Adam, that is an awesome project your friend has going down there.  How long has he been at it?  What are the issues preventing completion, even if just one hole at a time.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2011, 01:27:14 PM »
David. He's been at it a long time now. Pushing on 8-10 years. What prevents him from moving forward is time and money. He's only there for at max 3 months. When he arrives the first thing to do is to cut all the growth back. He couldn't have real experience constructing, just maintaining, a golf course. He's looked into sythetics but they too are prohibitive. In hindsight this was a great idea before the housing bubble. If 16 guys had sold their over valued homes, put 100k into this, they'd be sitting pretty, still with a place to call home in the winter.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 01:33:11 PM »
David - plenty have embarked on their own courses, be warned its very expensive if you want it nice. Lots of water will keep the price down as you dont really want lots of grass. Can yours be commercial or is it just for you? A par 3 hole can occupy just 1 acre, an acre being 140 yards by 35 yards so you have plenty of scope if yo have 20 acres. Perhaps you could post some pictures or your site, your budget and business plan, if you are near chimmney pots you have a chance with a par 3 course, if not it is a very very difficult stand alone.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2011, 01:47:02 PM »
David,

One of the most interesting golf courses I have read about is Pocantico Hills on the Rockefeller Estate in Southern New York.  Tom Paul and Wayne Morrison's book talks about it extensively, as it was designed by William Flynn.  The course was, and still is, an 18-hole reversible layout, played with 9 greens and several different tees.  All of the grass, except that on the greens is cut to "lawn height," which I'm guessing is somewhere between fairway and rough.  This type of design allows for incredible versatility and variety it would seem.  I think if I were building an estate course or short course, it would loosely follow this model.

A short course allows golf to be played in a shorter amount of time.  You can play a round of golf in an hour or two.  Shorter courses have an intimacy that longer golf courses do not.  Short Courses exude charm if done correctly.  Short courses also allow for an incredible flexibility in routing and hole configurations, since shorter holes usually mean shorter walks between greens and tees and closer proximity to neighboring holes.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2011, 05:38:48 PM »
The best one I've seen (and I haven't seen many) is Gualta Pitch and Putt in Northern Spain. They have 18 short par 3s in a wonderful sandy landscape with pine trees and sights like the fortress of Toroella de Montgri on top of a mountain. Some small lakes as well, probably needed for irrigation anyway. An innovative idea of theirs is that they convert the course to a 9 hole track with longer holes every once in a while, so you can play that for variety.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2011, 07:42:59 AM »
Having played the RAVC Healesville course (par 68, 5500yds)

link - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36330.0.html

and the 9 hole par 3 layout at Barwon Heads recently,

link - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38620.0.html

I'd suggest creativity, imagination, clever use of basic principles, minimal bunkering, lots of short grass and cool greens
would be essential to make a really good short course.

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 09:48:17 AM »
*MY POST WAS TRUNCATED BY A LOST INTERNET CONNECTION*  AARGH!

Dave
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 09:50:30 AM by David Harshbarger »
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 09:53:39 AM »
In Santa Fe NM. Baxter Spann built a great short course to augment the 18 holer he also designed. Since the clientel was expected to be more mature the 18 holes had to make exceptions for their ability. The short course allowed him to build more demanding features. Its fun too.   
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World Class Short Courses
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2011, 10:40:44 AM »
Adam, that's very interesting, that the short course would be more demanding than the long course.  Given my topography that might be in the cards here, too.

Matt, the thread on Barwon Heads is excellent.  I particularly like the comment that slower putting turf was used to "upsize" otherwise smallish greens, and to allow for more contour.  I think that is something I would do here, also, as there is quite a bit of natural contour here.

JNC, that's an interesting comment about "lawn height".  Part of the deal in the near term is to use the main fairway near the buildings for a playing field for the boys, so I think lawn height is a given.  I didn't really know how it wold play, but if it's like an intermediate cut, it would be OK.

Ulrich, thanks for the info on the Pitch and Putt in Spain. As I love to BBQ, I've considered calling this little course "Dave's Pitch and Pork".

Adrian, what, exactly, is this "Business Plan" of which you speak.   ;D Basically, I've got a tractor, my time, my land, and the luxury of many years to develop the property.  The only thing that would change that would be if the concept were strong enough that I could tie it into something with other people's money :)

Here's what I'm working with as far as the site.  I've got a total of 28 acres, in the shape of a bowling alley.  The property is 470' wide by 2800' deep.  Conveniently, that means that each 100' of depth is an acre.

The property starts at the road, then runs down towards a creek that crosses about 600' in.  From there, the property heads up for about 200' to the base of a hill, that rises about 100' over the next 600'.  The remaining 1400' is a series of crests and valleys.  From the hill back the property is a woods, and all adjoining properties likewise, so it is quite secluded.

Here's a photo from about 300' in towards the hill, showing the paddock and shed that have been greenlighted for removal.  There's a small ridge at the end of the paddock, beyond which runs a creek.



Here's the view from the ridge with the creek and the large pines.



And here's the area past the creek with the large pines in the background.



And from about the same point, looking back towards the farm buildings.



Incorporating the hill and opening up the back of the property seems the central challenge.  100' over 600' (a bit less tall if you go to the saddle) is a rise.  Here's an example of how steep in sections:



But interspersed are a couple of depressions like this:



Once up the hill, the property is crossed by 3 ridges, of increasing severity and narrowness.  However, they are relatively flat on the left of the property.  Between the ridges are relatively level areas that run right to left (I think), and could be used for golf. 

The soil in the lower area is clay.  On the hill, there's copious rock, but also loamy soil, if not particularly deep.

The lower area of the property has a lot of potential for a relatively straight-forward build out of a set of short holes and greens, IMHO.  Getting over the hill is a challenge, I believe, but, the payoff would be substantial.  As I've thought about it, if the course goes out and back, there's a nice journey to be had from going from the home and farm up and into the wilderness, then on the return, re-entering through a very nice view of the mountains across the Hudson, and a 200yd drive with a 100' drop, or a 260yd drive over a creek and ridge to the fairway, or some such similar play.

That's what I'm working with, and thanks for all of the advice and links so far.  I very much appreciate it.

Dave
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

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