A Mackenzie design flaw?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Doing some research over the past few days, I came across some info. on the evolution of the 9th hole at Augusta National.

Apparently the original Mackenzie green there was a boomerang which presented some advantage (perhaps depending where the flagstick was located on any given day) to driving into the adjacent fairway at the 1st hole (left) in the very early days of the course. It's reported that this became such an issue that Perry Maxwell was instructed to create a new 9th green, with bunkers along its left flank, to eliminate this advantage during the mid-1930s. Trees were also planted along the left side of the 9th hole off the tee to make it more difficult to drive into the 1st fairway.

Now, my question is: Did Mackenzie "miss this"? (I mean, there's a poorly routed hole at a course in my area where they've ridiculously made an adjacent fairway out-of-bounds for this very reason... the advantage is playing a 7-iron to a par 5 rather than a 3-wood lay-up) Or, considering his penchant for laying out holes with connected fairways - think Meadow Club and Pasatiempo for example - is this something that won't have troubled Mackenzie as much as it seems to have bothered Cliff Roberts and Bobby Jones shortly after the first few Masters were played?

[Nick_Christopher]

Similarly, some argue that playing the 6th green from the 7th fairway at Crystal Downs is a strategic advantage.  Maybe the Dr. liked players to be imaginative, regardless of safety!

[Philippe Binette]

Mackenzie is never wrong Jeff... Augusta is inspired by the Old Course. lol

I don't see any problem playing from the wrong fairway, I had a streak going in Scotland... Every time I hit it in the wrong fairway, I'd make a par...

Seve could said the same thing, although for him... it was a birdie.

[Yannick Pilon]

Jeff,

I would consider this a design flaw in the case when you can easily transform a decent length par 5 into a par 4, such as at the course you refer to in your post.

In case of a par 4 like no. 9 at Augusta National, I would think that whatever shot gives you the best angle to attack the pin is the best shot to do if the shot is realistically feasible.

I would not see this as a design flaw, unless it becomes a real safety concern on the adjoining hole.

YP

 

[Tyler Kearns]

Jeff,

Like Yannick mentioned, the major flaw would be not considering the safety ramifications. In order for the boomerang green to function strategically, you would need some extreme fairway width. Similarly, I think Bobby Jones played over the arroyo on No. 11 at Pasatiempo off the tee (prior to extensive tree growth) to gain an easier approach into the green. That might have been fine when play was limited, but on a busy course that becomes dangerous, and slows down play.

Is this a Mackenzie flaw? If it wasn't a safety problem at the time, then no. The golden age architects didn't anticipate a number of issues that have since affected their golf courses, increased distances, practice ranges, green speeds, greater play etc.

TK

[Jeff_Mingay]

Aside from Nick, interesting to see all Canadians chiming in here 

I wasn't insinuating it was necessarily a design flaw. It was more curious to me that less than 5 years after the course opened for play Roberts and Jones were so bothered by some golfers playing down the 1st fairway to the 9th green that they instructed Maxwell to resolve this issue with a new green. It could be interpreted as Jones being unaware that this would occur? Or that perhaps interference with play at the 1st hole wasn't working out? I don't know for sure. It certainly looks dangerous as well, considering golfers could potentially walk blind, up the slope to the 1st fairway, right into a tee shot heading that way from the 9th hole. 

Check out this historic aerial showing the original boomerang green at the 9th. The yellow lines represent play down the first; red - play down the 9th; and, the white lines show the route to the 9th green using the 1st fairway. Notice the small trees planted between these two holes as well.

[Niall C]

Jeff

I think the interesting question is what was Mackenzies intent ? Did he intend to effectively create a double fairway that players could use or was it just unintended ? Having seen a few other Mackenzie plans where he seems fond of having holes going in opposite directions dog-legging into each other, it seems to me a deliberate attempt to create a double fairway a la St Andrews. If it was intentionable I think you might argue in todays terms with busier courses and balls that fly further (and wilder) that it has become a design flaw. Back then, maybe not.

Niall (the non- Canadian  )

[Jeff_Mingay]

I get your point, Niall. Again, I'm not making any accusation. Just thinking aloud.

The 6th, 7th and 8th holes at Pasatiempo are a good example. Originally, all three of these holes were connected in a wide open space. These days, with so much more play there, it's ridiculously dangerous. And comparatively ugly because of the trees that have been planted to protect golfers at these adjacent holes. However, you can clearly see how cool the original concept was, conceptually.

I'm just not entirely sure that the situation at the 1st and 9th holes at Augusta is comparable. But I could be wrong.

Again, what triggers the question mostly is Jones' and Roberts' insistence that the green be changed to discourage golfers from playing down the 1st fairway so soon after the course originally opened for play.

[Kalen Braley]

Why not just put up in course OB stakes? Problem fixed...and for much cheaper than re-doing a green!! 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Why not just put up in course OB stakes? Problem fixed...and for much cheaper than re-doing a green!! 

Genius

[Garland Bayley]

Why not just put up in course OB stakes? Problem fixed...and for much cheaper than re-doing a green!! 

Genius

Jeff,

Please not pander to him.


I couldn't help but notice they had a molar for 9 and an canine for 18.
Didn't know the good Dr. was a dentist.

[Sean_A]

Jeff

There is no way Dr Mac missed this. 

I think a more interesting question is when does width become dopey?  I sit 40, 50, 60, 70 or more yards?   I haven't encountered too many seriously wide holes, but I have seen a few (the one which really stands out is Bulls Bay #4 - that fairway had to be 100 yards wide at one point) I that made me wonder what the point is.  Is it good architecture to provide a fairway 75 yard wide and a green which can reflect this width in a meaningful way?  Are there times when the archie really can't achieve what he wants without going to extreme lengths (assuming the land is fairly normal)? 

Ciao

[Neil_Crafter]

Jeff
I think the key to Dr Mac's intent is the large pine trees that you can see between the two fairways that you posted. I know this photo is early, 1934 or 5 and so I can't see Mackenzie giving an option that involves players hitting over large trees onto another fairway. Although this might have happened, I would doubt very much if it was in his design intent when designing that green.
cheers Neil

[Sam Morrow]

Why not just put up in course OB stakes? Problem fixed...and for much cheaper than re-doing a green!! 

Wow, that's exactly what I was going to write.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Jeff
I think the key to Dr Mac's intent is the large pine trees that you can see between the two fairways that you posted. I know this photo is early, 1934 or 5 and so I can't see Mackenzie giving an option that involves players hitting over large trees onto another fairway. Although this might have happened, I would doubt very much if it was in his design intent when designing that green.
cheers Neil

Neil,

I've said I'm not trying to make an accusation here, but we're on the same page with our thinking on this issue. I absolutely agree that if an alternate fairway route was planned, it's likely there would be no trees between the two corridors of play. And, again, it's very dangerous when you consider golfers walking up the slope to the 1st fairway.

[Sean_A]

I don't think an alternate fairway was planned, but I also don't think Dr Mac didn't see the possibility of using an alternate fairway.  Perhaps its one reason the trees are there.

Ciao