[Matt_Ward]

GN is only now getting the attention it deserves -- although GW raters do deserve plaudits for having it rate so highly.

I have always believed the course to be among NJ's top ten and that says something given the wide range of top tier classic courses that exist in the Garden State. Only GN and Bayonne would make that level in my mind among the modern layouts.

TF and his team did really well there.

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: Do you think GN is that much better than Trump Bedminster? 

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

That's a VERY tough call Jerry. If GN is ahead it's akin to the space that Affirmed outraced Alydar from years agp.

The original 18 at TN is a solid course in plenty of ways. Has a good case for sure in making the state's top ten because TF didn't just concern himself with THE FRAME but provided plenty of internal details -- solid green shaping and no doubt a pressure packed layout in regards to steady driving of the ball.

Sad to say -- but TN gets little respect because The Donald is involved and I see that as being unfair. You tell me how you see it if you have played both.

I will try to break down both courses and then post more detail shortly.

Good comparison / contrast situation for sure ...

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: I have played GN a number of times but TN only once so i really am not in a position to compare.  The reason I brought it up is to point out how much higher GN is rated compared to TN and is that difference justified?

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

I think TN / original 18 gets unfairly panned because of The Donald. Very solid course and if GN is ahead of it the distance for me is not that much.

Just two solid layouts in different areas of Jersey by TF.

[archie_struthers]

hey Matt ...Jes  you guys hit it far enough to relate to my thoughts on the elbow bunker versus waste area on #4 ...what say ye

[Matt_Ward]

Archie:

What do you want me to say ?

Curious to know this if you had 20 rounds of golf to play in the greater AC area how would you dividie
the courses you would play ?

[JESII]

If the revised bunker were nearly unplayable it would be an improvement, otherwise everyone would go that way every time and deal with the bunker on the occassions they found it. If it's a shot penalty, they'd have to think hard about the risk because there's surely a reward being as close as possible to that green.

[JNC Lyon]

Jim,

It seemed like going left into the bunker or woods was a pretty severe penalty.  If that tee ball ends up in the bunker, you face a relatively long bunker shot out of a potentially questionable lie to an elevated green.  The wind may be blowing off the bay as well.  All in all, that second shot out of the bunker is no bargain.  Furthermore, I'm not sure a one-shot penalty is a good litmus test for a hazard's strategic benefit.  I would go back to Bobby Jones' Car Crash vs. Plane Crash metaphor: the recovery shot is the best shot in the game.

[archie_struthers]

Here's my thoughts on the bunker that isn't and I'm on board with JNC...I think the current bunker is tooooo big and makes you lay up. There really is no option or reward for attacking.
You just can't justify trying to fly the trees on the corner as the fairway is too small....Make it bigger , bunker smaller..

.cmon matt , your gotta relate to this as you know the Galloway .

If it was truncated and you fly it some just couldn't resist trying to turn it aorund the corner and getting a big bounce towards the green. It wold be very much like some of the carries at Augusta, which are pretty heroic and really make the next shot much easier. Think 1 ,10, and 13.  

Matt if I had twenty rounds in AC , which is my home base here it is  ....  10 at Galloway....2 at Greate Bay  Hidden Creek  Twisted Dune and  Atlantic City CC (best locker room ever)   ...one  at Seaview (Pines or Bay)  one at Stone Harbor from the back (ouch)    

[Mike Sweeney]

Matt if I had twenty rounds in AC , which is my home base here it is  ....  10 at Galloway....2 at Greate Bay  Hidden Creek  Twisted Dune and  Atlantic City CC (best locker room ever)   ...one  at Seaview (Pines or Bay)  one at Stone Harbor from the back (ouch)    

I thought it was a New England thing, but Wayne Stiles STILL gets no love in Jersey at Wildwood CC. Great? No, but if you throw Stone Harbor a bone, the views at Wildwood alone deserve some love.

If Wildwood did what Southampton GC (NY) did this past year, it would be a top 3 at Da Shore.

PS. Greate Bay deserves 2 rounds for heritage alone, but due to the infrastructure issues, it can't be repaired the same way that Wildwood can.

[archie_struthers]

Mike

In a wave of nostalgia for what used to be I redacted Wildwood and put Seaview in my last spot. I would rather  hang out at Wildwood, its fun and the members are better.  Lots of good friends and competition to be had there. The hot golf ball and equipment innovations have made it real short , as it has many older courses.

Greate bay , although impacted aesthetically by the housing , is really quite good hole for hole. It is difficult for the expert and not too tough for the rest.  You can't shoot a good score at Greae bay without hitting high quality shots ...believe me on this. Park's false fronts are prevalent , and we have ripped out most of Garl's bad renovation of the mid 80's, thats why I rank it higher than Wildwood on my Jersey Shore....however many would disagree and have a legitimate argument   

[Matt_Ward]

Archie:

Agree w you on GB -- too bad the housing is there but the core of the course still has much to offer. Like I said before, AC area has some really interesting layouts but GN stands above the rest and I'm happy to see that many people realize what TF did there.

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