Pinehurst No. 2 Update

[Adam Lawrence]

There are new pines behind the fourth green, but yes, they are beyond the cart path. I coulldn't really figure out what they were doing there, but they have no impact whatsoever on play.

[Steve Kline]

Without seeing the pines, I bet they are there to eventually block the view of empty parcel of land that used to be the World Golf Hall of Fame. If they were on the near side of the cart path that would have really sucked.

[Jeff Dawson]

The pines are not in play but they are in view the entire play of the hole.  They are very small (maybe 1-2 feet)  they serve no purpose other than the resort guys need to be doing something.  The hardest thing for people in that line of work is to do nothing.  Almost all of the work the resort guys are doing does not come into play but stands as a very unnatural contrast to the work being done by the architects team.  Over time it will be too much of two worlds colliding.

[jeffwarne]

That looks freaking awesome!!!! I will be there at the beginning of April - hopefully with a tee time on #2. The fairways - with that greenish brown - look sooooo beautiful! The only thing that stands out is the greens look really green compared to everything else - but I guess that's just because it is winter.

My dad took a walk on some of the course yesterday. He thinks when the wire grass grows in it is going to be really nasty.

So we're all in agreement that painting, rather than overseeding is more "natural"?
funny old world...
maybe they could paint the greens brown in the winter

[Craig Disher]

The pines are not in play but they are in view the entire play of the hole.  They are very small (maybe 1-2 feet)  they serve no purpose other than the resort guys need to be doing something.  The hardest thing for people in that line of work is to do nothing.  Almost all of the work the resort guys are doing does not come into play but stands as a very unnatural contrast to the work being done by the architects team.  Over time it will be too much of two worlds colliding.

I recall that the area behind #4 was used as a staging area for tv and media during the 2005 Open. If that's the plan for 2014 the trees may be an attempt to block the view of tents, towers, etc.

I saw the crew working on the mounds behind the starter's hut and wondered what they were doing. At first I thought they were just moving soil around but then I saw they were pounding it down into what one could hope would be a natural-looking feature. Unless they cut the height in half and make it look less like a chocolate drop, it will certainly clash with the rest of the work surrounding the fairways. I talked a bit with one of the long-time grounds crew who was placing the wire grass in the waste areas. He said he had been using the 1930s photographs - presumably the ones taken during the NS Open and the PGA - as a guide. So far, I think the areas within the course look great - even better than I had hoped.

[Morgan Clawson]

Thanks for the photos.

This confirms my belief that #2 is going to be really difficult for the bogey golfer.  The greens alone are extremely challenging, and now there is a lot less turf to hit from.

I don't have a problem with that - there are plenty of easier alternatives to choose from.

Could the new #2 be the hardest course in the US for a bogey golfer?

[Jay Cox]

Thanks for the photos.

This confirms my belief that #2 is going to be really difficult for the bogey golfer.  The greens alone are extremely challenging, and now there is a lot less turf to hit from.

I don't have a problem with that - there are plenty of easier alternatives to choose from.

Could the new #2 be the hardest course in the US for a bogey golfer?

I don't think it will even be in the top 100 hardest courses for the bogey golfer.

There are dozens of courses where a bogey golfer having an even slightly bad day will lose at least a half dozen golf balls.  At No. 2, that golfer probably wouldn't lose any.  That has an enormous impact on score.

And even if a bogey golfer is racking up some high numbers, I doubt it will be nearly as frustrating or unpleasant at No. 2 as it would be at many other courses, including some extremely good ones.

[Steve Kline]

That looks freaking awesome!!!! I will be there at the beginning of April - hopefully with a tee time on #2. The fairways - with that greenish brown - look sooooo beautiful! The only thing that stands out is the greens look really green compared to everything else - but I guess that's just because it is winter.

My dad took a walk on some of the course yesterday. He thinks when the wire grass grows in it is going to be really nasty.

So we're all in agreement that painting, rather than overseeding is more "natural"?
funny old world...
maybe they could paint the greens brown in the winter

I'd prefer they not overseed or paint, but I'd rather have paint than overseed.

[Steve Kline]

Thanks for the photos.

This confirms my belief that #2 is going to be really difficult for the bogey golfer.  The greens alone are extremely challenging, and now there is a lot less turf to hit from.

I don't have a problem with that - there are plenty of easier alternatives to choose from.

Could the new #2 be the hardest course in the US for a bogey golfer?

I don't think it will even be in the top 100 hardest courses for the bogey golfer.

There are dozens of courses where a bogey golfer having an even slightly bad day will lose at least a half dozen golf balls.  At No. 2, that golfer probably wouldn't lose any.  That has an enormous impact on score.

And even if a bogey golfer is racking up some high numbers, I doubt it will be nearly as frustrating or unpleasant at No. 2 as it would be at many other courses, including some extremely good ones.

I've played #2 many times with bogey golfers. They play the course as close or closer to their handicap than I do to mine. The greens/chipping have a greater impact on the low handicap golfer than the high handicap golfer. High handicap golfers oftern take more than 1 chip to get on a green. Also, theyare fairly accustomed to getting down in 3, which can easily be done on #2 if one puts the wedge away and putts from off the green. The greens are challenging for Tour pros, but their short games are so good they can still can up and down a lot. However, the low handicap player can get chips to 3 feet or so often on other courses. But on #2 the variety of shots required to do that and the touch involved becomes seriously exposed. The low handicap golfer ends up with a lot of 6-10 foot putts par. Instead of getting up and down a fair amount the low handicap golfer makes a lot of bogeys. I've played this course several hundred times with all skill levels and have seen these exact things play out over and over again.

This is why I firmly believe that the greatest equalizer between skill levels is short grass and the greens. Put high rough, bunkers, whatever around the greens and I will kill the high handicap golfer with my short game. But give me tons of short grass to work with where there are a bunch of options, none of which I'm comfortable with, and things start to even out.

[Jim Nugent]

Thanks for the photos.

This confirms my belief that #2 is going to be really difficult for the bogey golfer.  The greens alone are extremely challenging, and now there is a lot less turf to hit from.

I don't have a problem with that - there are plenty of easier alternatives to choose from.

Could the new #2 be the hardest course in the US for a bogey golfer?

Anyone know the slope or bogey ratings for #2?  That at least should tell you how hard the raters think it is. 

[Jay Cox]

Jim,
From the tips (7500 yards), 76.0/137.
From the 6900 yard tees, 73.1/133.
From the 6300 yard tees, 70.9/126.

I imagine those ratings would put it near the bottom of difficulty for the bogey golfer among U.S. major championship courses, and I think that's probably correct.

[jim_lewis]

I walked the course again two days ago, and I am convinced that for the average player it will actually play easier than before, because the fairways are much wider in the area that most average players will hit their shots and there is no longer any bermuda rough. It will be more visually intimidating, but there is plenty room to hit the ball.

I also agree with Steve that I have observed that middle handicap players tend to score closer to their handicaps than single-digit players. I think it is because they are generally happy with a bogey, and bogeys are not that hard to come by. The player expecting his good shots to be rewarded and who expects to make a few birdies often becomes very frustrated and wastes shots with foolish agressive play.

[BCrosby]

Steve -

Great post. At our course in Atlanta we are following the same basic plan (with a considerably lower capital spend). We have put in new surrounds that will be kept very, very short. They provide all sorts of short game options.

So far our members love them. The Georgia state am is coming to our course next summer. A couple of friends (10 to 15 handicappers) have told me they worry that good amateurs will tear up our course without thick, high greenside rough. I am sending them your post, which responds to such worries better than I was able to.

Crusty - Good to hear from you. I hope all goes well.

Bob

[rjsimper]

I would tend to agree with those that say that the course would NOT be disproportionately difficult for the bogey golfer.

It will be tougher than it used to be, based on Craig's photos, but even still, there aren't the forced carries, the OB, and the general punishment that can lead the bogey golfer to take a quad or more on a hole.

They may give strokes away around the greens, and maybe a few more off the grid into the wire grass, but the same can be said for the scratch.

I would much rather play Troon North or Sawgrass giving someone 18 strokes than I would Pinehurst.