Sunningdale New course profile and Feature Interview now posted

[Gareth Williams]

My iPhone satellite picture of Sunny New shows a right greenside bunker, anyone know when it was put in and when it was filled in?
doh the 9th only hole without bunker

You surely mean the 8th, not 9th hole Mark?!

[Paul_Turner]

Fantastic Gareth, from your description and the photos it looks like the original 7th is being restored?  The original 7th was to the left of the current 9th hole (originally the 6th).




Not sure why that lone tree has been kept?

It would be interesting to see if the original green is intact.  And bunker outlines?

[Gareth Williams]

Thanks for that Paul.

It would make sense if this was the 7th being brought back to life as it routes from where the old green is for the 6th (now the 9th as you said)

Are there any pictures or suggestion for where the 8th and 9th went after after the 7th?

No idea why the tree has been kept but can try to find out.

[Paul_Turner]

Gareth

See post #23 in this thread.  It should clarify.

[Gareth Williams]

Gareth

See post #23 in this thread.  It should clarify.

sure, but trying to picture them in the current context...

The new work being done yesterday looked like the start of the 8th hole (New) going towards the 10th hole (Old) As mentioned there has been much tree clearance on top of that hill near to the current 10th (New) which would make space for the restoration of 9th (New)

[Paul_Turner]

Gareth

See post #23 in this thread.  It should clarify.

sure, but trying to picture them in the current context...

The new work being done yesterday looked like the start of the 8th hole (New) going towards the 10th hole (Old)

Gareth

I don't understand where this is?   Perhaps just general heath restoration?

 I thought the corridor shown was going into the woods to the left of the 9th?

[Gareth Williams]

Gareth

See post #23 in this thread.  It should clarify.

sure, but trying to picture them in the current context...

The new work being done yesterday looked like the start of the 8th hole (New) going towards the 10th hole (Old)

Gareth

I don't understand where this is?   Perhaps just general heath restoration?

 I thought the corridor shown was going into the woods to the left of the 9th?

I very much doubt it is heath restoration Paul. You really need to see it and the surrounding area to understand that it really does look restoration of old holes/introduction of new holes.

The clearance of these tree's cuts into the wooded area but leaves further tree's between it and the extensive heathland that is close by....therefore I don't see any reason for restoring further heathland in that specific area - plus it seems a heck of a coincidence given the location of the "old" Colt holes.

The pictures taken are 90 degree's to the left of the current 9th hole (New) and start just behind where the green for the 6th (New - now the 9th on the New) is. If you look at my last picture (the one you re-posted next to the historic picture of the Colt 7th) and then to the right hand side as it goes up hill that is the new area that they have just started to clear this week. I would assume this is the Colt 8th hole given the previous posts with the outlined Colt holes.

Hope that makes it clearer??

[Paul_Turner]

From Murray Long in the feature interview.
"The 8th is truly a great Colt hole. This is because this relatively short par 4, at only 310 yards, plays from an elevated tee, to a very small fairway with two bunkers left and two bunkers right. Then the green is surrounded by incredible undulation not seen anywhere else on either course. Colt must have moved a large amount of soil to create this great featuring. On the left of the green is a large sloping bank that would have been clad with heather but acts as a natural amphitheatre."

You can make out the amphitheatre in this photo of the original 8th below.  It should be possible to restore this green?

That must be the 10th OLD in the background, not far from the 10th tee (you can see the drop).



Here's the original 9th.  It's really classic Colt with those diagonal bunkers....v similar to 14th at Broadstone.  This hole is roughly parallel to 10th OLD ending close to that original 10th NEW tee.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Been trying for loooooooooong time to get our new printer/scanner to behave with no luck

I went back to the history and it’s clear that the Club has been buying land since the 60’s but not all the land.  They also have approx 193 acres adjacent to the New. In the past they’ve tried to get permission for a third course but due to it being declared a SSSI there’s no chance.  As I understand it the club owns the land for the Old and about half the holes closest to the Clubhouse on the New.

There’s also a written description of the 3 abandoned holes by a member who played them as a ‘young man’,  e.g.   “The 8th was a nondescript sort of hole”.

If anyone would like a copy of the pages please IM me.

[mark chalfant]

Nice post,

im not a youngster, but I have good eyes. The pics of number 8 and number 9 look much more than "nondescript" to me. Fun to play, artistic and gorgeous come to imnd !

[Gareth Williams]

Paul,

Thanks for those pictures, that's really informative and helpful 

I agree that the picture of the Colt 8th hole (new) does back onto the 10th of the Old. As of this week the clearing of tree's is towards where the elevated tee for this hole is/would have been. As a result I will keep an eye on the work and see if it is indeed the restoration of the Colt "loop" that is currently being worked on.

I agree that the original 9th is again classic Colt with that bunkering - but also very like the fairway bunkering on the Old 12th and Old 14th that I assume where Colt additions to Park's work?

Do you have a picture of the original 10th (New) tee/hole Paul as I would love to see that and how it related to the preceeding 8th and 9th?

[Paul_Turner]

Gareth

we have to really thank Neil Crafter who found these pics for me.

Here's the 10th, I assume from the original tee.  The bunker arrangement is such that it doesn't look much different from the new angle.



If you have a chance.  Would it be possible to get photos of the 8th green site before they start clearing and of the 9th hole too?  It would be realli interesting to see these holes in their overgrown state.  I suspect the diagonal bunkers on the 9th should still be apparent.  

[Gareth Williams]

Hi Paul,

Thanks to Neil Crafter too 

That picture of the 10th (New) from the old tee on the hill looks exactly as I expected. That tee can be located now as that area was cleared of tree's last year - but it wouldn't be playable due to the extensive tree's now between it and the old tee (i.e. to the left of the current tee box) - Unless the tree's were taken down left of the current 10th hole but I don't see that being done.

The wooded area where the Colt 8th and 9th holes are located is quite dense (well it is at the moment...) so it might be tough to fully identify the finer details of those two holes. However I'll see what I can see and post up what, if anything, might make sense. However the contractors might be working towards that area now but it will take some time given the extent of the tree's.

Another tell tale sign would be the Blue dots on tree's identified for clearance as this was what was done for the area I have photographed earlier this week that is where the Colt 7th was/is.

[Paul_Turner]

Nice post,

im not a youngster, but I have good eyes. The pics of number 8 and number 9 look much more than "nondescript" to me. Fun to play, artistic and gorgeous come to imnd !

Ha!  Mark  I hope we can play these together one day...you'd like the NEW.

[Paul_Turner]

I suspect this restoration work has sparked some of the rumours of new holes being built to replace holes that might be lost from the lease expiring.  I don't think a club would be spending this £ on restoring these 3 holes unless it was confident in keeping the course intact.

If the current 6-8 loop was replaced by this restored, original, 7-9 loop the course would lose about 200 yds.

[Noel Freeman]

You know it pains me as someone (selfishly) who has spent a ton of time in the heathlands with this person, a fine Sooner who relishes no praise and no attention that he gets no credit for the superb (from the pix and from me in person) for a lot o this work.. Oh sure, his name won't appear as the restoration/renovation archie but he was on the ground.. And I can think of not a humbler man who gets GCA.. I won't mention his name here, but Paul Turner and a select few know who I am talking about...Tuco tips his hat to you for Sunningdale..

[Gareth Williams]

I suspect this restoration work has sparked some of the rumours of new holes being built to replace holes that might be lost from the lease expiring.  I don't think a club would be spending this £ on restoring these 3 holes unless it was confident in keeping the course intact.

If the current 6-8 loop was replaced by this restored, original, 7-9 loop the course would lose about 200 yds.

It's actually the other way round here Paul.

The various stories of the lease expiration have been around for quite a few years now. The clearance work that would appear to be the possible restoration of the original 7th/8th and 9th Colt holes only commenced 6-9 months ago - the areas in the pics I posted - and further work only started this week.

Should the 7-9 loop be re-instated I don't doubt that (taking your figure) 200 yards could be "found" elsewhere if really needed to retain to current length - already alluded to in the GCA interview (18th hole - New for example)

[Gareth Williams]

Update;

This clearing work really is going ahead with some gusto over the past few weeks. The contractors have taken a huge amount of tree's out from where the Colt 8th hole would have been (and between the 7th green and 8th tee - New) and I have recently located the (currently dormant) 8th green.

No sign as yet of any clearing work for the Colt 9th hole though...

Can take some more pictures if GCA members are interested?

[Sean_A]

Gareth, Ran or whoever

What sort of changes are afoot concerning New's 17th? 

Ciao

[Gareth Williams]

Gareth, Ran or whoever

What sort of changes are afoot concerning New's 17th? 

Ciao

None that I am aware of Sean.

No work activity on that part of the New - although the 1st on the Old is having a new tee and alterations to the shape/look of the hole.