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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« on: February 10, 2011, 07:38:14 PM »
If a truly spectacular course lacks variety or better stated has too many of the same approach characteristics on a majority of holes even though individually each is very compelling(perhaps even awesome) and of different distances can the course be considered great? good? bad?
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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 07:57:55 PM »
Bad!

Wasn't it CB MacDonald that said variety is the spice of life and the life of a golf course.  Or did I just make that up?
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Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Anthony Gray

Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 08:42:48 PM »


  Variety is what makes Cruden Bay a classic and Diamante the new must play.Too much of a good thing can get boring.Scotish course feature more variety than US courses.

  Anthony

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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 10:44:11 AM »
Quote from: Anthony Gray on February 10, 2011, 08:42:48 PM


  Variety is what makes Cruden Bay a classic and Diamante the new must play.Too much of a good thing can get boring.Scotish course feature more variety than US courses.

  Anthony

Humorous and off base my brillo headed friend

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Anton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 03:08:34 PM »
Courses need variety.  Variety in the shots required off the tee and fairway / variety in the hazards that are present / variety in scale and length / etc. etc. etc.

I played a course that was very much hyped up in South Jersey here (Shore Gate golf club).  Visually a great course.  It has water and waste areas and bunkers galore.  I was really blown away by the visual effects there.  But then in actually playing the course i found it rather dull and I was repeating the same shots over and over throughout the round.  Every hole set up very similar to each other and almost all of the greens seemed to have the same slope and shape about them.  I am not saying it is a bad course.....just that I found myself hitting 8+9 irons into elevated greens all day long.  The course should be set up for more variety off the tee and on the approaches.  Plus the bunkers and waste areas on every hole give it a real manufactured look. 

A place like Sandbarrens that has a 'theme' going on (acres and acres of scrub and sand) did a fantastic job of distinguishing each holes character.  This keeps the player interested. 

Overall you can have a good 'theme' or presentation but just try to vary the playability of the course so that each club and each type of shot is needed to successfully navigate the course.  Variety is the 'spice' of good golf architecture. 
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“I've spent most of my life golfing - the rest I've just wasted”

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2011, 09:13:07 AM »
Variety is really important.  Jerry Pate's design of our new course at Pensacola Country Club is excellent -- no two holes are remotely alike.  It will never be boring to play on a regular basis.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/pensacola-country-club
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2011, 09:18:45 AM »
Judging by a lot of greenside bunkering/rough patterns on MANY REVERED COURSES I would have to conclude that variety of approaching/chipping isn't that important to a gret many people.

Ciao
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New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2011, 09:22:42 AM »
Greg,

Do I read it right that you are focusing on the approaches to the green, or do you mean that in a general sense?

Either way, who can disagree with variety. I mean, the world sure doesn't need any more "bunker left, bunker right" greens with hole descriptions that say "Try to miss the bunkers here."

More seriously, it seems that for much of the history of at least American architecture, the emphasis is on punishing if you miss here or there, rather than using ground contours to encourage a particular or variety of shots.  That is pretty one dimensional thinking!
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2011, 09:59:55 AM »
No...I think NGLA is Exhibit A on that score.  As the Grateful Dead sang, too much of everything is just enough:):)
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Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is too much of a good thing a bad course?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2011, 03:50:41 PM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on February 14, 2011, 09:22:42 AM
Greg,

Do I read it right that you are focusing on the approaches to the green, or do you mean that in a general sense?

Either way, who can disagree with variety. I mean, the world sure doesn't need any more "bunker left, bunker right" greens with hole descriptions that say "Try to miss the bunkers here."

More seriously, it seems that for much of the history of at least American architecture, the emphasis is on punishing if you miss here or there, rather than using ground contours to encourage a particular or variety of shots.  That is pretty one dimensional thinking!

The question was stated in terms of approaches. If an otherwise awesome course has too many uphill, false front type approaches... can it be considered great?

Would you consider carry hazards around the greens on a links style course bad architecture? A course that looks like the ground game is in play but in reality is not... thoughts?
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