Cobb's Creek

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Mike/Joe,

How about at least a taste of your scholarship?

I want to see the photo of the par three fourth hole with the Ranger on horseback you mentioned. Can you share that with the GCA group? If not please PM it to me.

I am still today trying to get a picture in my mind of the Cobb's Creek area in 1914.

[Joe Bausch]

[Sean_A]

Joe

What an odd little photo.

1. What the heck is the guy doing hitting a ball when a horse and rider look to be right where he is aiming. 

2. I thought the guy on the right had a wierd skirt on until I realized it was teh tree trunk.

3. Why isn't the caddy holding the bag, or at the very least why isn't the bag leaning against a bench?

4. Why are all those benches there?

5. Where does the hole go?

6. Is that sandy ground on the tee? 


Ciao

[Joe Bausch]

Sean, I don't think the guy is going to hit the ball.  See his smirk in the expanded photo below.

Maybe one guy is carrying his own bag?

Those benches were likely there b/c this short par 3 was a fairly long carry over water and articles indicated waits of over an hour on that tee.

The green is just slightly lower and left of dead center of the picture above.

And that probably was a rather sandy tee.  Heck, to this day it tends to be rather sparse with grass mid-season due to sun and light issues!

[Joe Bausch]

Here are two more early pictures.  This one from No 3:



Originally I thought this was taken from behind the 5th green, but I'm pretty sure now it is from behind the 6th, which was an island green par 3 with the tee up on the hill in the photo.  And you can see the rocky sluiceway as well.

[Mike Cirba]

Sean,

There is a very high res copy of this photo and there are a few things I'd point out.

First, the guy on horseback was a park ranger, who used to regularly patrol the course enforcing rules and policing mischief.

What I'd give to bring a few of those back today! 

There is also a "hole number sign" directly behind the green.   These were standard back then.

As it's a winter scene, they are playing to a temporary green off to the right, near the 5th tee.    In the high res photo you can see the flag over there.

And benches...that last vestige of a civilized society....we should see more of them, not less. 

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Wonderful!

Are there dates associated with these?

The one from the fourth tee appears to predate the light rail Septa line. It looks like there is a large barn on the horizon in Upper Darby. Is that another sluiceway to the right of the fourth green?

Even then, it appears that a tree intrudes off the 5th tee for those wishing to play to the right of the creek.

On your photo of the 3rd green it looks like a bunch of local scamps are hanging out trying to catch things in the creek. Looks like a typical Philadelphia high summer day with perhaps some thunderstorms brewing by the look of the clouds.

[John Shimony]

I just love these old photos.  Especially from a course I'm familiar with.  Mike and Joe, and to all involved, I wish you success in your endeavor.

[Mike Cirba]

Sean,

I should also mention that sandy or dirt tee areas were apparently not uncommon back then.

My understanding at Cobb's Creek is that the regular daily tees were dirt (rounds upwards of 85,000 annually would have quickly reduced them to dirt anyway), but that there were back, "grass" tees that were used for competitions and special events.  

Malcolm,

Some new back tees were also created for the 1928 US Publinks tournament which added a few hundred yards to the course, including those on 1 and 2 (neither of which we played the other day).

[Mark McKeever]

Mike, which holes had these "special back tees"?  All of them, or just some?

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

My next favorite photo of Cobb's is the 5th green under construction.  I really would love to find the original photo of this, but I've been striking out so far.  If found and in high resolution, it might show one of the people in the photo is William Flynn.  Or maybe Wilson, Ab Smith, George Klauder, or....

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Joe/Mike,

Your muse, Diana, has served you well.

If there existed a prize for golf geek-dom your work blowing the dust off of Cobb's is certainly an outright winner.

It is amazing how rapidly the past recedes and is lost without advocates to keep it alive. Envy, to the archeologist who's finds and inspires awe and wonder in the living at the glories which have been lost.

Let's pray that Cobb's can rise from it's decrepitude and find greatness once again.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

And Tortas for all, Amen

Malcolm

[Joe Bausch]

Malcolm (and others),

     You'll find these pics from right around when the course opened (1916) to be of interest.

Note that the 3rd green was different and even had more trees!



Current tees at a much different angle here on the par 3 4th:



Note the tree short and right of the green on the 5th.  I'm not sure playing to the right of the creek was all the great of an option.



This was the downhill 12th, a short par 3, that is currently the par 3 6th green but played from an entirely different angle:

[Joe Bausch]

Those pics above are from scans of the scrapbook kept downtown at the Fairmount Park archives.  I wish I had what was likely the text that went with those articles, and I'm confident they came from a Sunday supplement issue of the Public Ledger.  But, I've discovered, many of those supplements did not make it only microfilm.

 

[Kyle Harris]

Joe:

Was it ever determined that the tees on the 4th hole actually moved?

[mike_malone]

 Rough and tumble course it was.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Joe,

More amazing stuff!

So, the Septa light rail was there in 1916 after all. That third green is looking more Pine Valley-esque in this photo. Is that a narrow extension to the back left surrounded by *hit? I'm not sure that the view of the fourth is from a tee. Looks to me like the photographer is trying to show the creek and green from an advantageous angle. I'm also thinking that the fifth was not meant to offer a right or left option with the creek. It looks like it was designed to be a double carry and the hole description in the article states the creek is to be crossed twice.That view of the 12th... Wow, fun fun!

Mayday,

You dont know the half of it. No Tortas back then! How did they survive?

[Mark McKeever]

That picture of the 12th never gets old to me.  I have had some talks with my great great uncle who is fortunate to have played the golf course before a lot of the changes were made!  His favorite hole on the course is "The one earlier on in the round with the tee shot up over the big hill"

Mark

[JNC Lyon]

It was great to see Cobb's Creek with resident experts Joe and Mike today.  Looking back at these photos, it seems to me that, while the course needs some restoration, the bones are still there today.  One of our group even got off a shot on the old 12th today!

Any further thoughts on why that 5th hole was never designed as an alternate-fairway hole?