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Niall C

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How Many Bunkers
« on: January 20, 2011, 02:52:29 PM »
With too much times on my hands over the festive season I was reading the latest edition of World Atlas of Golf and started counting the number of bunkers on the Scottish links courses (don't bother asking because I couldn't tell you why).

The courses in question being;

Carnoustie
Cruden Bay
Muirfield
North Berwick
The Old Course
Prestwick
Royal Dornoch
Royal Troon

In total the number of bunkers varied on each course from 52 to 148. What surprised me was the discrepancy between the lowest and the highest but also which course was the highest.

Setting aside Cruden Bay (52), North Berwick (70) and Royal Dornoch (82) which have never held the Open and therefore have never been "beefed up", the next lowest is Royal Troon (91) which has had a reputation in the past of being over bunkered, indeed many think it still is. Even so it has less than two thirds the course with the highest number.

Next up is Prestwick with 97. Quite a high number I would have thought in comparison to the others and given it hasn't hosted the Open since the mid 20's. After that you have TOC (109) and Carnoustie (110) neck and neck which is surprising as one has the rep as the easiest of all Open venues, maybe the easiest of all major venues, and the other would be a candidate for perhaps the hardest and yet they nearly have the same amount of bunkers.

The biggest surprise for me however was that Muirfield had a whopping 148 bunkers. The fact that it had the most would have been surprising enough but that many really was a shock. Renowned as being the fairest (Jack Nicklaus says so) yet it has so many bunkers. Does that suggest that bunkers are all in plain view, that they aren't placed other than for the clearly poorly played shot ?

Or does all this just reinforce the belief that statistics just don't tell the whole story ?

Niall
 

Melvyn Morrow

Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2011, 05:28:07 PM »

Niall

Now are you certain that you are using the right terminology by using the word ‘Bunkers’. Are you certain they are not sand traps or simply hazards.

As for the location of bunkers, sand traps or hazards where in the rule does it state that they must be seen.  Perhaps the terminology needs to be changed as bunker seems to define easy while hazard and sand trap offer the poor golfer a slight hint that he could be heading for some problems.  Shallow bunkers or winter Tees as they certainly offer no deterrent to a competent golfer.

Or are we saying that Bunkers are strategic while hazards and sand traps are penal. Or to confuse or to lull the golfer into a false sense of security we call them bunkers when in fact they are traps. Cunning ideas like that are devised by the deprived lowly associate in one of these big design practices hoping to get his name mentioned on the long list of also involved in the design .

Who knows - its only some form of statistics.

Melvyn   

Sean_A

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Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2011, 05:39:12 PM »
Nial

Check out Lytham - oh my.  Muirfield has a lot of bunkers because other than the land being sandy it isn't a wonderful piece of golfing country.  To me, far and away the best thing about Muirfield is the bunkering and I always maintained that if the bunkering is the best thing about a course it can't be all that great.  To be fair though, I very much believe taht Colt's remit was to build a championship course.  He certainly did that and with flying colours.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 04:34:50 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

George Freeman

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Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 05:47:41 PM »

...Or does all this just reinforce the belief that statistics just don't tell the whole story ?

Niall
 

This seems to be the case.  Interesting nonetheless!
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2011, 10:17:45 PM »
Niall -

In addition to the number of bunkers, shouldn't their size also be considered? I suppose you could also factor in how large an area surrounding a bunker "gathers" balls into that bunker. In that sense, a smaller bunker may play much larger than its actual size if a golf ball rolling within 20 or 30 feet of the bunker is likely to roll down a slope into that bunker. 

Finally, shouldn't other obstacles on the course (such as gorse) be considered when making comparisons between courses? Looking at the World Atlas of Golf's depiction of Muirfield, it appears there is very, very little gorse in play on the course compared to some others in Scotland. Might this be a reason for the many bunkers?

DT     

Sean_A

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Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 02:14:45 AM »
David

Its true that Muirfield doesn't have gorse, but make no mistake, there are plenty of opportunities to lose balls in the grass. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 04:16:12 AM »
I've done analysis on bunker numbers before.

I believe Lythym had 370 at one point, more like 180 these days...

Portmarnock had 180 back in 1930 but this is down to 112 nowadays... Ballybunion had 49 pre-Tom Watson needless changes and this is now 62...

I don't think you can directly relate number of bunkers to quality or fairness....

I do think there is a relationship between number of bunkers and the nature of the ground the course was built on and in what stage of GCA history the golf course was designed....

TEPaul

Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 08:25:54 AM »
Melvyn:

First of all, and since you mentioned the word rule in your #1, there is no such thing in the Rules of Golf called a "sand trap."


Niall:

I'm not that familiar with the over-all land and topography of the courses you mentioned, other than North Berwick and Muirfield, but it just may be that Muirfield has more bunkers than some of the others because its natural topography is not quite so interesting for golf compared to some of the others.

We believe Flynn, for instance, tended to go fairly light with bunkering on sites and parts of sites that had some really interesting topography for golf and heavier on bunkering on sites and parts of sites that were flatter and not so naturally interesting for golf.

Perhaps there is something of the same tendency with the amount of bunkering on the courses you listed.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 08:27:30 AM by TEPaul »

Melvyn Morrow

Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 08:36:23 AM »
Tom P

I am speaking golf 'Sand Traps' perhaps a little before your time, but hey do not worry just goes to show yoy still have things to learn like the rest of us.  Anyway the Rules are by the R&A so just what do you expect.

Melvyn

Philippe Binette

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Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 02:33:38 PM »
Some links courses have a lot of bunkers but not a lot of bunker complex... lytham has a lot of bunkers groups of 3 or 4 that add up quickly but you don't get the feeling that it's a zone defense bunkering like carnoustie where you step on the tee and see a narrow corridor with bunkers left and right.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Bunkers
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2011, 04:30:27 PM »

Niall

Now are you certain that you are using the right terminology by using the word ‘Bunkers’. Are you certain they are not sand traps or simply hazards.

As for the location of bunkers, sand traps or hazards where in the rule does it state that they must be seen.  Perhaps the terminology needs to be changed as bunker seems to define easy while hazard and sand trap offer the poor golfer a slight hint that he could be heading for some problems.  Shallow bunkers or winter Tees as they certainly offer no deterrent to a competent golfer.

Or are we saying that Bunkers are strategic while hazards and sand traps are penal. Or to confuse or to lull the golfer into a false sense of security we call them bunkers when in fact they are traps. Cunning ideas like that are devised by the deprived lowly associate in one of these big design practices hoping to get his name mentioned on the long list of also involved in the design .

Who knows - its only some form of statistics.

Melvyn   


Melvyn

Note your comments but like Tom P I was referring to the man made sand pits where you aren't allowed to ground your club without penalty. As for all the other hazards, I'll save that for another thread (insert smiley here).

Sean, Ally,

Absolutely right, its generally the topography that influences the number of bunkers. No better illustration than Troon with its dune country out at the turn (8-13) having 14 bunkers and the remainder (holes 1-7 and 14-18) having 77.

Indeed when Braid did his bunkering scheme for Troons first Open in 1923 he reputedly added something like 80 bunkers with the 18th hole alone having 40 bunkers ( there's now ONLY 9). When Carnoustie had what I think was its first Open in the mid 30's they actually removed 50 bunkers. Again Braid was responsible for the complete redesign of the course ion the 1920's. When I think of Braid I don't generally think of loads of bunkers but I do think of flanking bunkers on both sides fairway and green. Just not a lot of them.

DT

Sean's right of course about the rough at Muirfield although like the gorse elsewhere its not really an obstacle. You generally go over obstacles or around them. The rough at Muirfield, like the rough at Dornoch really only comes into play when you've hit one out of the general playing corridor. I would have thought its generally bunkers which define strategy/degree of penalty within the playing corridor. And of course you are quite right, some bunkers do gather more than others but over the piece I'm assuming that would generally even out between courses.......unless of course you think one of those courses tends to have more gathering bunkers than some of the others ?

 
Niall

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