Green Speeds and Changes in the Ball

[Steve Salmen]

I was thinking about this today:  The golf ball today flies much faster because they are harder.  Multi piece balls are harder than the wound, soft covered balls of yesterday.

Because they fly hot off the driver, does this necessarily mean a Pro V1 will go further than an old balata using the same putter and the same stroke?  For the most part, I believe it's not really significant except possibly when facing longish downhill putts on extremely fast greens.  Then, because of the nature of a delicate putting stroke, the hardness of the ball could make a difference. 

I bring this up because some old courses in the US cannot be lengthened and use the speed of their contoured greens as defenses.  Ross and Macdonald did not intend for their greens to be 11s and 12s but did not intend for wedge to be hit into 440 yd holes either.  I played some great courses last year with persimmon woods and wondered what would happen if I added balatas (besides losing 35 yards off the tee).   

Does the hardness of ball have bearing on how far it will roll?

[RSLivingston_III]

I believe your premise is incorrect.
The modern golf ball is not very hard at least not in comparison to a Gutta Percha golf ball. Or even the old Surlyn ball.
I never did a roll comparison but do know from old advertising that balls were selected for roll or carry based on size and weight, neither of which is a consideration with the current crop of balls.

[Richard Choi]

Steve, the modern ball is only "harder" if you are hitting it with driver speed (you compress the urethane cover into the firmer surlyn mid-layer which reduces spin off the driver). When putting, they are going to feel pretty soft since the urethane covers are quite soft and that is all you are going to feel with the putter head speed.

[Bill_McBride]

Steve, I think there is a whole lot of difference between the feel of a Pro V1 and the old Top-Flite "Rock-Flite" even though they are both solid core two piece balls.  There's a lot of new tech in how soft the Pro V1 plays.  The Rock-Flite was as long as the Pro V1 but felt literally like a rock around the greens!

[Steve Salmen]

I have never done a test but, how do Pro V1's stack up distance wise against your typical rock, like Pinnacle? 

Bill,

I agree that the harder the ball, the worse it feels, especially on and around the greens.  Richard brought up something interesting: whether the true distance the ball travels is due to compression.  But Pro V1s are so much harder to scuff up than balatas which makes me wonder how significant the cover is?  Perhaps balata is crap compared to new urethane? 

So Richard, if urethane is soft, why doesn't it scuff like balata?  What would happen if you had a urethane cover over a wound interior?

[Richard Choi]

Steve, you can be soft (high compression) and still have higher shear strength than balata which would lessen scuffing or cuts. If you had a urethane cover with a wound interior, you would have a pretty soft ball (most people probably won't be able to tell it apart from balata). But it would also spin a lot which would reduce the distance off a driver.

[Sean Leary]

Unless you use a Brush tee.

[Bill_McBride]

I have never done a test but, how do Pro V1's stack up distance wise against your typical rock, like Pinnacle? 

Bill,

I agree that the harder the ball, the worse it feels, especially on and around the greens.  Richard brought up something interesting: whether the true distance the ball travels is due to compression.  But Pro V1s are so much harder to scuff up than balatas which makes me wonder how significant the cover is?  Perhaps balata is crap compared to new urethane? 

So Richard, if urethane is soft, why doesn't it scuff like balata?  What would happen if you had a urethane cover over a wound interior?

It's all about the high tech and the $4/ball.  The distance vs other balls only comes with the 105 mph + swing.

[Richard Choi]

If you don't have a very fast swing speed (you avg drive is aroud 200 or less), you actually want higher spinning balls as you need more elevation on your drive. The faster your swing is you want less spinny balls as spin will balloon your drive.

The true innovation with multi-layered urethane balls (pro v1) is that it produces less spin on your drive (due to a firmer surlyn mantle layer), but still capable of high spinning wedge shots due to the urethane layer.