[TEPaul]

It seems almost completely true to say that George Crump was the individual inspiration behind the idea, the creation and the execution and design of Pine Valley, arguably consistently considered to be the greatest golf course in the country and perhaps the world throughout much of its nearly one hundred year history.

Why do you suppose this hugely interesting man never was or wanted to be the president of the golf club that he visualized, found, created, mostly designed and apparently even largely owned?

Has there ever been another like him in this way in the history of golf?

[Anthony Gray]

  Bandon's owners name is on nothing at the resort.He even refers to himself as the land steward.Very humble.It would be nice to know more about George Crump.

  Anthony

[Dave McCollum]

Perhaps, the enigma is enhanced because he died before the course was completed.

Anthony, at risk of raising the ire of Mr. Paul, who started this thread, Tom Macwood did an extensive portrait on Crump in the “In My Opinion” section of this site:
 
 http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/thomas-macwood-george-arthur-crump-portrait-of-a-legend

I thought the piece was well written, but have no opinion (or facts) as to its historical accuracy.

[TEPaul]

"I thought the piece was well written, but have no opinion (or facts) as to its historical accuracy."


Dave:

I thought the piece was well written too and I have seen no real issues with its historical accuracy but I do not think it addressed or even broached the particular issue and subject of this thread.

[Joe Bausch]

Tom, do you think it is possible he thought he did not have the personality to be a successful club president? Could it be that simple?
 

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom,

I don't find it strange if George Crump didn't have any interest in being President of the club.  

The process of creating the place is something much different than governing.

[Dave McCollum]

 Tom,
I read the Crump profile years ago, before I ever noticed the “discussion group” tab on this site.  I suppose you’re right that the piece didn’t get into more about who GC was as a man, but that is probably unknowable ground open only to speculation, not to mention psycho-babble interpretations of history.  I haven’t read much of anything else about GC, but would love to know more.   Fascinating story, especially in light of the man’s circle of friends and their own contributions to the game.
 
Why does anyone build a golf course?  Has there ever been one built, let alone a truly great one, that is not some kind of massive monument to the developer’s ego?  I don’t know.  Perhaps I am more interested in this subject than most because my father built one and I now have more than a passive interest in why an otherwise intelligent businessman would succumb to such folly.  And, to anticipate your question, yes, I too am nuts.  I’ve done renovations and made changes.  Some good and some not so stellar (but none not praised by our golfers once in the ground).  I could go on forever about all of the tweaks and improvements I’d like to make.  I think about these things all the time, even though I know they make poor investments and most golfers really could care less.  It’s not rational; it’s a passion.  I even think it is somewhat deranged at times.  On this site I’ve even referred to it as the “George Crump delusion” or some such that could lead a man, after blowing the family fortune,  to blowing his own brains out in a state of depression.
 
I don’t know the answers, but I do have an unlimited number of theories.  For me, the best ones I can come up with to justify my addiction boil down to a love for a piece of property and the endlessly seductive idea of building something that folks will continue to enjoy long after I am gone.  There is no greater canvas for expressing oneself, in my deluded view, yet, as with many things in life, creating something lasting or a truly outstanding golf venue is all about collaboration.  So, ego and leadership certainly play a role, but, unchecked, and without a tempering amount of humility, can be obstacles in obtaining the needed help of so many others.

Please feel free to correct my ignorance about this subject.  Know of any good books you can recommend? 

[TEPaul]

Dave McC:

A marvelous and revelatory post that last one of yours! Let's continue your thoughts and discuss them at your pace, your convienence and your discretion!

Marvelous post!

[Tom MacWood]

In those days being chairman of the green committee was a more powerful and focused position, from an architectural point of view, than president, which was a more all encompassing oversight position.

By the way that Crump essay got butchered when the site changed formats.

[TEPaul]

"In those days being chairman of the green committee was a more powerful and focused position, from an architectural point of view, than president, which was a more all encompassing oversight position."


Tom:

I might agree with that with an existing golf club but not necessarily a start up club as Pine Valley was with George Crump. Can you name me another start-up club where a man who essentially thought of it, created it and essentially owned it as Crump did in the beginning was not the club's president or was never the club's president?

[Tom MacWood]

I'm not sure they are the best examples, and I'm not sure the answer, but was Bob Jones, Marion Hollins, and H. Mallaby-Deeley the presidents of ANGC, Pasatiempo and Princes? I don't think they were though I could be wrong.

[TEPaul]

Tom:

Those are good examples and those are good questions. I don't know about any of them but they are obviously findable. Don't know anything much about Mallaby-Deely and I don't know if Marion was the president of the club she founded---eg Pasatiempo but I do not believe Jones was as much the man behind the creation of the club ANGC as opposed to the golf course as Cliff Roberts was.

[Adam_Messix]

Tom MacWood--

Robert Tyre (Bob) Jones is President in Perpetuity of the Augusta National Golf Club.  With this in mind, we all know that Clifford Roberts was the real power of the club, particularly after World War II.  I'm pretty sure that Hollins was not President of Cypress Point. 

Tom Paul--

To answer you question about Crump being enigmatic, I'm not so sure.  Here was someone with a real passion for the game that wanted to give something back and create a testing ground for the best amateur golfers of the Philadelphia area because of their struggles in national competition.  There are clubs where the founder or driving force behind a golf course's creation backs off relatively soon after the golf course is open, both classic and modern.  I guess it depends on the person who starts the place.  But, I have found the visionary types have neither the willingness or the patience to put up with the day to day operation of a club which is what a Club President's job.  They tend to take individuals with different types of personalities.  The Club Founder wants to be out there making sure everything is done creating the club properly while the Club President has to put up with maintaining budgets, hiring/firing staffs, running board meetings, listening to complaints, and making sure nothing is out of place. 


Where Crump could be considered enigmatic is in his passing and the fact that he didn't see Pine Valley it's completion.  I understand that he could have been in serious pain at the point of his passing, but given what I know about Crump and his big personality I'm surprised he didn't see it all the way through. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Has there ever been another like him in this way in the history of golf?

The history is still being written, but I think Tiger Woods is the greatest enigma in golf.

He was given great talent and he worked very hard to perfect that talent.

He was given the platform and had the potential to literally change the world outside of golf.

At least for the time being, it is gone.




e·nig·ma
   /əˈnɪgmə/ Show Spelled[uh-nig-muh] Show IPA
–noun, plural -mas, -ma·ta  /-mətə/ Show Spelled[-muh-tuh] Show IPA.
1.
a puzzling or inexplicable occurrence or situation: His disappearance is an enigma that has given rise to much speculation.
2.
a person of puzzling or contradictory character: To me he has always been an enigma, one minute completely insensitive, the next moved to tears.
3.
a saying, question, picture, etc., containing a hidden meaning; riddle.
4.
( initial capital letter ) a German-built enciphering machine developed for commercial use in the early 1920s and later adapted and appropriated by German and other Axis powers for military use through World War II.

[TEPaul]

Adam:

I don't know if Marion Hollins was ever a president of CPC but she apparently was the person who took out the option with Morse to do that private club there. I think the question was whether Marion was the president of Pasatiempo. I don't know about that either but I do know she certainly was the person who made all the decisions there; it was definitely her vision and project from the beginning and it was pretty remarkable in its scope. She had an English financial backer in the person of Cecil Baker but Marion had also made a fortune herself in the Kettleman oil venture. But she lost it all eventually and Pasatiempo too. Her life story is quite amazing.

As for Crump, he was the one who initially bought Pine Valley and he apparently was the subscriber to the majority of the bonds that were floated to pay for things. When they asked him what he planned to do with his bonds eventually he said: "At some point I will have a bonfire and burn them."  

Clearly another major financial angel or facilitator or whatever one wants to call him was MCC's Horatio Gates Lloyd. Financially with the club's new course and residential community he seemed to be in total control but he was never the president of MCC. He did not live long enough to see Merion GC come into existence in 1942. It's first president was Rodman Griscom who also served on many committees and the board and was one of the five on the Wilson Committee in 1911 and on for a time.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

Roger Lapham would be named CPC's first president and in that capacity he would award the project to Mackenzie and Hunter after Raynor died.

[BCrosby]

Jones wasn't just a ceremonial president. He signed notes on behalf of the club and seems to have been involved in a number of business negotiations, at least in the 1930's. A note he signed as president is the subject matter of an important Georgia case on the rights of a holder in due course.

Bob   

[Adam_Messix]

Bob--

Bobby Jones signed letters inviting new members to join the club into at least the 1960s.  From reading both Roberts and Owens history books of Augusta National, it seems as if power slowly moved from Jones to Roberts from the club's opening. 

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()