Missing Letters of Merion: Horatio Gates Lloyd and Charles Blair Macdonald

[TEPaul]

David:

With all due respect and regarding your last post you do not know what I know about Merion and consequently you should refrain from remarking that I pretend to know about matters there I know nothing about. There is no possible way you could know who I know there, how long I've known them or what any of us have spoken about over the years or recently.

I notice that you once again used your constant qualifier above---eg 'so far as I know.' What is that? Is it some kind of subtle legal gimmick intended to split hairs and words and ideas and statements in debate or argumentation?  How far is what you know about Merion or what any of them from that club including those who run it have said to me about anything even including you?

It seems to me you constantly try to make policy or process decisions for them about what they should or shouldn't do. I think a better idea would be for you to just allow them to make those kinds of policy and process decisions and who they speak to about them for themselves.  And if they feel they would like to include me in them somehow then that is their decision and their prerogative and not yours.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to go finish mowing the upper forty.

[DMoriarty]

Tom,
I am not the one pretending to speak for Merion and I am not the one pretending to make policy and process information for them. 
-- I know about MY dealings with Merion because, they are MY dealings with Merion.  You weren't directly involved and have no direct knowledge about these matters.   
-- I know about Merion's policies regarding these matters because those at Merion who are authorized to speak for Merion have explained them to me.  There actual policies are not what you have represented, but given it is not your place to set their policies or convey their policies there is no need to even discuss it further.
-- I know who is authorized to speak for Merion on these matters because I have inquired with the club about who is authorized to speak for Merion on these matters. 

As you know, Tom, you are not authorized to speak for Merion on these matters and you should really stop acting as if you were.   

Now Tom,  after you finish your mow job, how about you actually get to the issue at hand. 

Thanks.

[TEPaul]

David:

I know I'm not authorized to speak for Merion and I never said I was; you're the only one who has said that I claim I am or act like I am. But I certainly do know their process for their archives and other aspects of that club and have for many, many years. And, as you obviously know, I do know the one who does speak for Merion about the things you're interested in. He's been a very good friend for some decades now and we speak all the time about all kinds of things to do with the history and archives of Merion and access to them by anyone and everyone if it comes up. Actually he said to me the other day, in a tone of some irony and mirth, that on this issue he and I are probably no different than Wilson and Macdonald or Lloyd and Macdonald once were. Macdonald was never a member of Merion either but he was a good friend to them or at least they felt he was and said he was and that he was not a member does not appear to have limited them all in any way in speaking with one another as freely as they saw fit about anything involving the club.

You seem to think that those at Merion including the ones who may speak to you about it are under some kind of moral imperative that contains some kind of ethical restriction to not mention to others the things they think and do and say to others. I can assure you that is not the case and never has been, despite what you think or what you think you know.

It's definitely not rocket science here or something akin to corporate or government classification procedures either. Some of us are just good and long time friends really and we do not feel there is any particular reason not to talk about anything and everything we feel and have some common interest in.

Perhaps you don't like it that way and disagree with it but that is not your decision to make; however, for some odd reason you've acted on here like it is.

Actually, the same is true for me at MCC, a club that has not been involved with Merion GC for sixty eight years. Obviously they still have many common members and I know hundreds of them too and have for years including some who run that club. If they feel like speaking with me about any of this they do. Perhaps you disagree with that too but again these are not decisions you get to make.

[DMoriarty]

Fancy yourself any way you'd like Tom.    I'll let Merion's authorized representatives speak for Merion.

[TEPaul]

David:

No problem at all and so will I. 

It occured to me this morning as we weave through these lagubrious discussions in some attempt to come up with a consensus of opinion or an agreed upon approach on something, that things like this----including this thread of yours and its initial post should probably not be on this DG.

From the comments of those on this thread and even on Ran's recent one about tone and such it appears most everyone on here is just sick and tired of these kinds of discussions, particularly over the subject of Merion between you and MacWood and me and perhaps Cirba.

It also occured to me that we do it simply because we've become used to do it all on this DG. I thought back about why that is the case and it occurs to me that it is because of you and because you have virtually demanded that it be that way. You have apparently tried to limit it that way by constantly reminding me that I should never contact you in any way other than through this DG.

I'm not going to do it only that way anymore. A subject like this thread's which was begun by you and includes a form of negotiation between us for something I have that you seem to want could be much better accomplished off line. In that way, we surely would avoid the disappointment of so many on here including Ran of the way this subject has gone now for so many years.

I think you know where to find me and how.

[DMoriarty]

Tom,

All I want to do is discuss golf course design.    All this other garbage is yours.

Why don't you just go back and read my initial thread and start again, only this time make it about golf course design.

Just answer my questions.  You must be about out of excuses as to why not to.