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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 10:59:21 AM »
Bruce,
With Jim Urbana, they're in very good hands

Phil_the_Author

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2010, 11:30:56 AM »
Bruce,

I understand the club has a terrific researcher working on that very thing and that he has discovered that Zukor actually made a film of the golf course in the 1920s and is attempting to locate it... But, that's just a rumor...

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2010, 12:03:12 PM »


I played Tillinghast's Rochester G&CC in Rochester, MN, for the first time last week, and recognize some of the green complexes. I also noted in the photo above that, like Rochester, someone at Dellwood got a little happy with the pine seedlings (the three pines that seem to have been planted between the grass bunker in the right rough and the green.)

Rochester is terribly over-treed, in my opinion, and the pines in some cases completely obliterate architectural features that Tilly left behind. But it is also a spectacular course, and it shot way up my list of Minnesota courses on first play.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2010, 01:13:07 PM »
Pat,

    The former "traffic light" system you refer to is but one of many we are examining as a potential solution(s). The good news is that it's likely the tees move up on that hole and it become a tremendous par 4 (instead of the par 5 it is at present). Of course, that will mean the course will move to par 70, but the club has no problem with that. Jim will be the driver of that decision.

Jeff,

  Don't be surprised if one, or several, of those Nordic Spruces that line the left side of #2 magically reappear in Rockefeller Center adorned with Holiday lights! Higher, better use might well dictate that! :o

Mike,
   Any wayward shots that I made that day were specifically designed to help you find your even more wayward strokes!  :D

Dan,

   Please remind Laura that she is my partner in next year's mixed member-guest! ;D

Phil,

   Any excuse to get on the Paramount lot! Please get me a pass for the filming of next year's Entourage!

Rick,

  As Brian mentioned, trees have been everywhere , but are on their way to significant thinning.

Matt,

  Come on up some time and bring that big bad titanium driver of yours. While the first shot defense is benign at best right now, once Jim gets finished, even the mighty will have their hands full trying avoid a big # up there.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2010, 07:18:08 PM »
Dan
"It's only blind once"
B Crenshaw?


Jeff,

I don't believe that.
While it's a cute catch phrase, the truth is that your tee shot doesn't land in the same position every time you play the hole and the hole location isn't static, so the frame of reference is always in doubt.

That blindness, while becoming somewhat less of a mystery with additional plays, still leaves the golfer uncertain about the approach.

I've played # 1 at NGLA more than a few times, and even knowing exactly where the hole is cut doesn't help me that much when approaching from the blind bowl on the right.

The same can be said for being in either of the two bowls on  # 16.
The only thing that saves you on that hole is the severe punchbowl nature of the green and green surrounds, without which, you could add at least another stroke to your score

Jeff Loh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2010, 07:25:17 PM »
Pat
I'll buy that...well reasoned. But I hope not to bogey #2 at Dellwood next time I play it!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2010, 08:07:15 PM »
Jeff,

The 6th hole at Old Marsh is a hybrid "alps' hole, and despite them placing a rock on top of the hill to indicate hole location, with water right, bunkers and that big mound, it's a frightening shot, even with a wedge.

I think we get a "sense" of where to play, but never the solid visual feedback that enables us to play with confidence.
So, blind holes are always blind to the mind's eye ;D

Steve Lapper,

I thought # 7 was a terrific par 5.
As a par 4 ?   ?   ?
That sychronized traffic light seemed to work well.

Perhaps an additional berm, ala # 8 & # 11 at NGLA would help.

Good luck

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2010, 08:11:38 PM »
Come on - tunnel the road!  JK can quote you a price!

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2010, 06:15:40 AM »
The problem with the 7th remaining a par 5 is multi-faceted. Let's go from green-to-tee for an examination.

From the excellent green complex (buried beneath fairway grade), the fronting bunkers do a healthy job of protecting the green from any slightly mis-hit approaches. In today's par 5 iteration, they barely function as defense from wedges and high irons. The greens cant (back-to- front and right-to-left) suggest that it was hole originally designed to receive a longer iron.

The huge high-faced fairway bunker on the left side has been rendered irrelevant, yet presents one of the best Tilly-style bunkering visuals at the club. 2nd shots down the right side (lay-ups) also bring a large tree into play...something I'd wager Tilly hadn't originally planned for.

Unfortunately, the road isn't going anywhere and allowing it to come into play on multiple shots just adds to the ever present risk of golfball-strikes-auto accident. It is approximately 265 from the present members tees. At present, long bombers can reach it or get over from the back tees, while most lay up and then hit over again. Why continue the elevated risk (already embedded on #1)?? Additionally, it requires Brian and his staff to maintain fairway on both sides of the road. Would berming help? Probably and that remedy is one that Jim is considering. (Dan...if we built a tunnel, and those lucky enough to hit into it reached the other side, would we then have to either; a) take their ball, or: b) put in conveyor belt and a windmill? Funny idea though and thought of by somebody at some time in the past, no doubt! (also, should Jaka ever work there, we'd have to hire additional protection for him...from the local rabble rousers! ;))

The existing tee boxes, at the top of the hill, are set back and tucked tight to the property's edge and force an OB tree line into play for any left-to-right fade/slice. Interestingly, one of those tees lies atop the buried water tank and all the tees have an aim slant that needs rework.

We've been playing it from a forward tee that would be the near site of new tees. It allows for a 220ish carry over the road and a very, very challenging approach anywhere from 240 to 155. The hole really seems to play better as a four and the idea of reducing par to 70 seems to nicely fit the philosophy of adding test without reducing the sporty appeal of the course.

As I previously mentioned, all of our collective conjecture is but worthless as the trusty eye of Jim Urbina will likely be the ultimate arbiter of what this hole becomes. I know that the club is excited and has the utmost faith that Jim's treatment(s) will only enhance what is already there.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2010, 08:04:22 AM »
Steve,
Any ideas for #1?  To me, that was the tougher challenge.  I hit it over the road from the back tee and I'm not that long a hitter.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2010, 08:24:25 AM »
Dan,

   Berms and early warning systems are likely.

The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Brian Chapin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2010, 07:10:36 PM »
Pat - I would love to see a picture of the traffic light... you are the only person I have ever met that speaks of it.  I must disagree with you about the quality of the hole as a par 5.  A par 4 is far more interesting a hole, if only for the tee shot that seems to fly forever against the best back-drop on the property, and one of the most stunning views I have seen in the NYC metro area.  The only club I have played with any view that competes is Sleepy, just across the river.  When played as a Par 5 the view is of nothing but the tee in front of you.

Lapper-  Jim told me he is adding a water fall down the hill on #1 and that 18 will play due south about 2 miles to end closer to "The Clubhouse"


Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2010, 07:47:49 PM »
Brian,
My friend - that tee shot is one of the most beautiful tee shots anywhere - not just NYC.

Not as good as Pacific Dunes #11, but still good :)

Brian Chapin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2010, 07:54:16 PM »
I wont argue that Dan... it is beautiful.  I will let you know about Pac Dunes... I am headed out next weekend for the first time.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2010, 09:49:25 AM »
Brian,
Pac Dunes will blow your socks off.  It's the most beautiful scene for golf I've ever been lucky enough to experience.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2010, 10:34:54 AM »
Pat - I would love to see a picture of the traffic light... you are the only person I have ever met that speaks of it.  I must disagree with you about the quality of the hole as a par 5.  A par 4 is far more interesting a hole, if only for the tee shot that seems to fly forever against the best back-drop on the property, and one of the most stunning views I have seen in the NYC metro area.  The only club I have played with any view that competes is Sleepy, just across the river.  When played as a Par 5 the view is of nothing but the tee in front of you.

Lapper-  Jim told me he is adding a water fall down the hill on #1 and that 18 will play due south about 2 miles to end closer to "The Clubhouse"




Brian,

   Did Jim mention the labor intensity of running the log flume down the water fall? I'm sure I can get Jeff to get you a Skipper's cap and some clown feet! :o
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Brian Chapin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2010, 06:25:44 PM »
Steve - are you forgetting that there is a road at the bottom of the hill??    A log flume would be dangerous and not practical.