36(or more) hole complexes - must they contrast?

[George Pazin]

I read in one of the threads (the Feature Interview..., I think) something about how multiple course complexes should contrast. Is this necessarily true?

I am under the impression that Baltusrol, Merion & Winged Foot all possess courses that are at least similar in nature, if not necessarily similar in terms of difficulty.

Bandon/Pacific seem similar in some respects, different in others.

It seems as though current orthodox thinking is that you must have 18s that are different: one "links" or wide open course vs. one wooded course, etc.

What works best? What would you do?

[THuckaby2]

George, the simple answer is I'd go with what the land calls for.  I'm not gonna plant a forest on a links setting just to achieve difference, for example.

The complicated answer I'll leave to those more qualified.  I do know that the 36 hole complexes I've been to, I do enjoy more if there is at least a little difference.  But having it "forced" wouldn't be good.

Interesting question, in any case!

TH

[John_Conley]

No, they need not contrast.

The courses at PGA Reserve (North and South) and Bonita Bay (Bay Island, Marsh, Creekside) and Orange Co. National (site of '03 Q School) are similar.

World Woods, Grand Cypress, Champions Gate, and others offer different feels.

An interesting study is Bonita Bay, where the first 54 share the same characteristics and the next 36 (off-site) also share a vibe - but are completely different than the first three courses.

[APBernstein]

Is this exercise confined to complexes with just 36 holes?

The reason I ask is that Pinehurst is a very interesting example.  I will only evaluate the courses at the main location for consistency.

In #1 (and #3) you have shorter courses with interesting green contours and housing developments throughout.  I prefer #1, but I enjoy playing them both.  #2 speaks for itself.

#4 is where it gets even more interesting.  I never got to play the original #4, but heard that it was a good course throughout.  No real housing to speak of and a very nice piece of land that has some good movement.  The "new" #4 is very different, although it occupies the same tract of land and generally, the same routing.  My question is this: was the course changed to provide variety.  Ignoring whether it is a better course now or then, were the changes aimed at improving the course or merely changing it?  You could probably make an argument for both, considering the vast change in styles between old and new.

[David Graves]

The Sea Island Golf Club now has three distinct courses as opposed to 4 separate 9 hole courses and one 18 hole course. The better and more challenging course is The Seaside course---originally a Colt and Allison (1920's) design redone by Fazio (1999). The Plantation is an amalgam of Walter Travis (1926), Dick Wilson (1960) and Rees Jones (1998). The Retreat Course was originally done by Joe Lee (1960's) and redone by David Love III (2001).
The Seaside today has a little more feeling of playing a dunes type course while Plantation is more straightforward. I have not played the Retreat Course since the "renovation", if that is the right term.
I will say it is nice to have some variety in both terrain and in difficulty at one location. For instance, my son is learning to play and, while he is no where near ready for Seaside, he and I can play Plantation and have a great time.

[Chris Kane]

If I were developing a multiple-course complex, I'd ensure that each course were by a different designer.  Use what the land dictates, with the differences being decided by the creativity of each designer.

The National in Australia has three distinctive course - one heavily wooded hilly RTJ Jr. course, and then two distinctive links courses, one by Greg Norman and the other by Thomson Wolveridge and Perrett.

[Tim_Weiman]

George Pazin,

Bandon and Pacific seemed quite different to me and that adds to the overall appeal of the resort.  At least to me.  If Keiser goes ahead with a course in the woods, that would really boost the Bandon report even further in my eyes.

One thing I enjoy about Monterey is how different the courses are.  The same can be said for Herb Kohler's American Club.

As Tom Huckaby points out, I wouldn't have done anything different than the developers did at Winged Foot or Baltusrol, but the similiarity of the courses at those two venues does detract somewhat.