elbow bunkers ....why do I hate them so ???

[archie_struthers]

 

Seems I just can't get away from ripping the elbow bunker  ,  on two of my favoriite courses Pine Valley (#4)  and Philadelphia CC 's Spring Mill course (#14)  it woudl give me so much pleasure to see them removed ...any other bunkers on the corner you would like to see extracted  >>>

[Powell Arms]

I especially dislike them when they have a patch of rough beyond them, punishing the shot long enough on the bold line to carry them.  If I've carried the bunker, then let me be rewarded!

[archie_struthers]

 


great point Powelll , just another reason to hate them.....unless it's a fairly sharp dogleg , they tend to be quite ugly!

[Jim_Kennedy]

Archie,
For the most part they're an insult to a player as they show a laziness on the part of the architect to do something that might be a little more interesting.

[Dan Herrmann]

Archie - inside or outside of the elbow?

I think the ones on the outside, such as at Merion East #1 are fantastic and not commonly seen.

[David Whitmer]

I usually don't have a problem with a bunker on the inside of a dogleg. I see it as risk-reward...if I choose that line, I better carry it far enough. If I don't, then I know a punishment awaits. Jim suggested "something a little more interesting" could go there instead...other than mounding, or a tree, or rough, I'm not sure what else an architect could do. A pond? I don't care for a tree there (punishes a short hitter who may be in the fairway, but blocked to the green), a pond is very harsh, and usually rough is bland and too playable for what was an errant shot.

Now, I agree with Powell...if I am going to carry the bunker, give me a reward...don't give me a shot from rough.

[Jim_Kennedy]

David,
I recently played an older course that has woods on the inside corner of a dogleg, but there was a nice 'window' cut through the trees that a shorter hitter could take advantage of if he/she was willing to take the chance. It was a windy day and the second time around (it's a 9 holer) my tee shot got caught up in a gust, but using this window allowed me the chance to get my second shot to within a 9 iron of the green (it's also a par 5).

More fun/interest for me than the same old bunker shot. In retrospect this is mainly what I meant when I said that bunkers on the inside of a dogleg are lazy architecture, i.e. it's the same old shot.

[jonathan_becker]

Archie,

I just played Philly CC three weeks ago.  I hit driver down the middle on 14 to avoid your trap but also knowing that the ball would probably kick into the right rough, which it did.  I figured it work out ok because the rough was cut fairly short.  When we approached my ball, the caddie started laughing about how lucky I was because I had a wide open shot with a 9 iron, but it was sitting in an area where trees had been recently removed. 

If those trees were still there, then it's the toughest drive on the course bar none.  And if the rough was longer even without the trees, it's still a tough tee shot.  I guess what I'm getting at is play it when the rough is short and just hit it down the right side! 

[Fred Yanni]

Archie

I have a quick question and need some clarification on PV.

Have they installed new bunkers on the right on #4 at PV since this spring that stick out beyond the small trees on the corner at the crest of the hill?  I ask because I played PV this spring and I could not see the bunkers on the right from either tee box.  The bunkers there were only in play if you blocked your tee shot.   The line I have been given for 20 years on that hole from the tee box (and now the waaaaaay back tees) was along the right edge of the fairway if you wanted to catch the hill.  Of course from the regular tee I can't hit driver anymore or I hit it in the crossing bunkers.  From the back tee I am not long enough unless its downwind to catch the hill so I can take a more center fairway line.  

For 3 days only one ball in the foursome found those bunkers and it was a pretty good push.  Unless there are new ones on #4 that stick out further than the tree line the other bunkers are not really in play unless you take a bad line off the tee. To me they seem to be there to prevent balls from bounding down the road.  If the really big hitters are attcking the right side on that line I don't really see much to be gained as there are crossing bunkers and rough at the bottom of the hill.    

Thanks in advance for the additional color.  I would love to see an updated picture of the hole.      

[archie_struthers]

 

Some great stuff if it's on the inside of the elbow , absolutely there should be a reward to clear it!  .   Come to think of it the elbow bunker on #2 at Twisted Dune is in play and on the inside but if yu do choose to challenge it there's a turbo boost just over it ...I forgot  lol

Bunkers on the outside are better , I agree with Dan. They serve a two fold purpose...


At Philly if you carry the inside elbow you are still in the rough (no good , no reward) , in fact I'd much rather be in the bunker than in the rough as it tends to be gnarly and you can at least spin the ball out of the trap. In addition ti isn't real penal, but it is ugly and mars the sight line from the tee!

The bunkers on the right side of four at the "Valley " are indeed only in play for a push or a low ball hugging the trees on thr right . As forecaddies , it was lots of fun to watch our golfers come off their tee shots , only to get a big sweeping safe sign from the top of the hill.  Imagine their surprise to have caught a big bounce and ended up only 150 yards out in the middle of the fairway . Sorry I can't do graphics but someone surely can help us....