Thoughts on Pete and Alice Dye Courses

[John Shimp]

Honors Course is Dye course that some may not recognize as such.  Really fun to play and beautifully maintained with all of the native grasses, blackberry bushes, etc surrounding holes.  I really like that place.

Surprised at the dislike of Colleton River and Barefoot Landing.  Pretty solid courses in my view.  I think Dye does a great job with coastal golf courses in general.  Although from watching on TV, i don't think Whistling Straits plays like his collection of SC coastal courses where the ball runs out more and the ground game is possible (Kiawah, Colleton, not harbour town, don't know about Long Cove).  SC is lucky to have its collection of Dye near the beach.

[Mark Pritchett]

I think the Honors Course has some great holes, particularly the short Par 4 ninth and the Par 3 fourteenth.  Perhaps somewhat underrated are the other Par 3's here.  This course seems to be the least overdone of the Dye's courses that I have played.

Long Cove has a great opening hole and I enjoyed the Par 13th which is the forced carry over the water.   I think Long Cove is the type of course that would continue to get better with each round.  It did not blow me away the first time I played it, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.  All the holes are really solid here except either the 4th or 5th (the one with the odd mound that seems out of place). 

Colleton River may be the opposite in that after one play I found myself thinking this course was very good and deserved more recognition.  Though after further reflection, CR might just be the strongest the first time one plays and get a bit old after several trips around.  The mounding on #9 seems way out of place and the bunkering on a lot of holes is too overdone for my tastes.  Still it is a pleasant walk through the lowcountry, especially the second nine.

As to the other Dye Courses in the Low Country I like the Ocean Course and Harbour Town a lot, both are fun to play, though I understand that HT may not be everyone's cup of tea due to the tightness of the trees and the small greens.

Hampton Hall in Bluffton was an okay course at best.  I can't say I would have guessed it to be a Pete Dye course if I hadn't already known beforehand. 

I really thought Crooked Stick was a good course with a lot of solid holes.  I would have liked to have played it before some of the revisions to compare it to the present version.  Wide fairways opening angles to the greens and a solid group of Par 3's like #6 and #17. 

Brickyard Crossing is worth checking out if you visit Indianapolis and want to get in a quality round of golf and check out the speedway as well.  Not sure I need to go back just for the golf however. 
 

[Tim Nugent]

Tom Doak - great post. More thoughtful and insightful than most - well worth the price of admission (and a Sticky Topic candidate).

I agree it's hard to generalize such a long career but here is my take on Pete's playbook.
1) dare to be different
2) be bold (it never hurts to have photos of your work in print)
3) use a players ego against him
4) make the player solve a problem but give him more information than he needs and see if he can disregard what doesn't matter (baffle 'em with bullshit)
5) form follows function - probably why many of his features look hard and artificial and his bunkers are about the most non-descript out there.
6) (and this is the one most get) make hard for some but playable for many
7) the course is defended at the green

[Bill_McBride]

As the husband of a golfing spouse, I appreciate Alice's influence on placing the forward tees at the appropriate distances. The average male hits drives about 210 yards with the average female drive traveling about 140 yards; clearly putting the reds markers 20 yards forward of the whites will not offer a pleasant or comparable experience. Our Pete Dye Jr. course, Carlton Oaks, here in San Diego allows her to hit irons into most greens and she has a hell of a lot more fun than banging 3 wood all day.

I'll agree that most Pet Dye courses incorporate angles into the tee shot strategy. Unfortunately these angles tend to dissapear if you move up and play off the white tees. I guess when you cater to the expert player, you can't bre all things to all people, now can you.

At our course, my wife's tee shots wind up about the same area as mine but it still isn't very equitable. From say 130 yards I hit 8-iron, she hits 4-wood.  So even 50 yard tees don't really balance things out.

Luckily she is a gamer and our matches are usually close!

[Michael Whitaker]

We have the good fortune of having quite a few Pete Dye courses in South Carolina:

Harbour Town
The Ocean Course
Long Cove
Colleton River Plantation
Debordieu Club
Barefoot Resort
Heron Point at Sea Pines Resort
Windermere Club
Prestwick CC
Hampton Hall

I think the "hidden gem" in the bunch is Prestwick. It is an older course that was originally created to be a private club. LOTS of old school features without too much crazy mounding (but, there still is some  ). Very solid course... extremely walkable... with several unique holes. One feature that Dye used on this course that I have not seen too often on his other courses is the multi-level plateau fairway. There are two or three holes at Prestwick that successfully use this feature.

Here is an example of the plateau fairway on the par 5 12th at Prestwick



The Dye Course at Colleton River is outstanding. Yes, it has some crazy bunkers... it's the first Dye course that I remember with one of his "volcano" bunkers... but, it is a great course and represents some of his very best work. I know you can't believe all the architect quotes that are used in promotional brochures, but at the time Colleton River was built Dye did say in print, "This is the best course I have ever built." That's pretty strong regardless if it's PR bull**** or not!

You can see one of the "volcanos" at Colleton in the background of this picture. Yes, there is sand on the top! Why???

[Trey Stiles]

I was a big fan of the work @ Waterwood National ( prior to it's recent demise ) ... played from the proper set of tees , it was a lot of fun , a good test , good angles , with unique ( at the time of development ) features that required imagination around the greens.

The only Dye course I have been disappointed with was a course in Ocean Springs , Ms  ( can't remember the name ) .... It was VERY run down when I reviewed it , was on too little land , kind of plain , and not a good experience  ( It did have some great vistas ) ... I seriously doubt that it re-opened after the hurricanes.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think his best days are far behind him. However that said his body of work is at the  top tier of the profession