The Elephant in the Room

[Ken Moum]

  If the greens are at 9 than the fairway and green surrounds are most likely an 8. Most of the ups and downs will be with a putter.

  Anthony

IIRC, Euan Grant, Head Greenkeeper at TOC in 2005 told me they stimped the fairway out at #10 during the last open there, and it was above 10 feet.

[Sean_A]

It wasn't that long ago that 9 on the Stimp was considered fast. Ronald's claim that they are bumpier, likely has a lot of factors as to why they are bumpier. Failure to fix ball marks, etc. Smooth surfaces, in my estimation, are capable at any speed.

With the loss of character and contours that have been forced on the golfing world, due to higher green speeds, is this another example of making the sport easier, while telling everyone, and having everyone think, they are more difficult.

 

spot on
I would also dispute Bob Crosby's comment that slower speeds make up and downs easier.
Not if the greens are allowed to get firmer (which you can with the healthier turf from less stress from higher cut)
also, not if the slower greens allow a more undulating area for the hole to be cut (assuming the green wasn't designed for "modern idiocy" speeds of 12+)

I agree with Jeff.  Good greens (and TOC has good greens) rolling at 9 or 10 can provide plenty of action for chipping.  To me the key is getting pros to think about keeping it on the floor around the greens.  If they are in three minds (aerial, bump n run and on the floor) we will see some terrific shots and some terrible misjudgements.  TOC takes guys out of their comfort zone from the get go and this is why any of them even entertain the idea of keeping it on the floor.  Its a shame to see the green course because that will definitely oncourage more aerial attack.  I would also say that if they are watering fairways (and they obviously are) that means the rough has less chance to be whispy and therefore guys will take fewer risks with recoveries. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

  If the greens are at 9 than the fairway and green surrounds are most likely an 8. Most of the ups and downs will be with a putter.

  Anthony

IIRC, Euan Grant, Head Greenkeeper at TOC in 2005 told me they stimped the fairway out at #10 during the last open there, and it was above 10 feet.

Not a good trend

[D_Malley]

is it ideal to have the fairway approaches stimping close to the same as the greens?

I remember someone saying that was one of PB's problems that the greens were rolling much faster than the fairways.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's the Nike club designers explaining the technology behind the Method putter:

http://www.adambarrgolf.com/ab3gwp_lm/2010/07/tiger-switches-to-nike-putter-for-open/

[john_stiles]

If you look at the old film from even those made for TV match play events in late 50s, early 60s,  you will notice many players did not have a modern pendulum swing.

If you ever happen to play really slow greens,  your pendulum swing might not work as well.

Having to take the putter back too far, much farther than normal,  on the shorter putts is a bit troublesome.

If Tiger always putted on 9 stimps,  he would eventually be the best putter again,  whining all the way.

I think the change, adjusting to the change in speeds,  doesn't suit many of the pros. 

[Adam Clayman]

John, That's the elephant.
 
Listening to the Pros, who clearly want to make things easier for themselves because that's how they earn their livelihood.

It has taken all the sport, out of the game. Creating generations of golfers who deplore the notion of challenging them the way real sportsman approach theirs.

IMHO, this loss of sport is also one of the key reasons why we have a declining population of golfers. And worse off, future golfers.

[RSLivingston_III]

I had always heard that links greens needed to be slower because of the wind potentially moving the ball.

[Adam Clayman]

Ralph, And as Jeff and Sean have articulated, the slower speeds allow for more interesting pin positions.

Imagine the embarrassment if the weather had shown up at Pebble Beach a month ago?
With those greens at 13, it wouldn't have taken much, to make the whole place unplayable. (That is of course if they haven't softened the contours since I was a local)

BTW, Weiskopf just opined that to hit the road hole green with a high aerial shot, requires landing in a 20 ft/sq area.