What would the good Dr think?

[Dave Falkner]

In the "Spirit of St Andrews" Dr. MacKenzie takes a swipe at archies who spend vast sums of money reproducing holes (CBM, Raynor??)
wonder what he would think of OM?

[Tom_Doak]

Funnily enough, the hole I'd guess we spent the most money on [#7] was not one of the template holes.  #15 would also have been near the top of that list.  Most of the templates fit pretty smoothly into the terrain.

[Dave Falkner]

Tom

glad to hear from you on this question as MacKenzie's main criteria was that the hole should fit in with the surroundings so I gather he would have approved.

Cant wait to get out and see your work

[Chris Shaida]

I wonder if -- either from a playing or from a designing perspective -- there is any merit in an analogy of a 'template' hole to a poetic form (sonnet etc.) or musical form (sonata etc.)?  I know there was discussion on the 'will old mac make tom grumpy' thread about a number of visual artists tackling the same content (madonna and child) but I wonder if the poetic and musical forms are more apt?  Part of the persistence of the sonnet form is the way it brings some structure/comfort/recognition with it without limiting creativity--there are good sonnets and bad sonnets but they aren't good or bad because of the form.  Similarly, it's rarely said that a particular sonnet is not creative or original just because it uses the given/borrowed form.  There are, afterall, a whole raft of fixed things about a golf course (18 holes, narrow band of yardage, relatively fixed hole allotment, etc.) that don't drive one to question an architect's creativity or originality.

[Neil_Crafter]

While Mackenzie might have taken that swipe at 'template' holes, I think it was the expense part that he objected to. Mackenzie himself was certainly one to 'copy' holes himself and we see numerous Edens, Redans and Road Holes through his work. A number of the holes at ANGC were inspired by holes in the UK. Here's his 'Road' hole at Weston-super-Mare.

[Tom MacWood]

I don't think Mackenzie would have been thrilled with OM, but a golf course dedicated to some of his more famous creations would've probably been a different story.

[Bill_McBride]

While Mackenzie might have taken that swipe at 'template' holes, I think it was the expense part that he objected to. Mackenzie himself was certainly one to 'copy' holes himself and we see numerous Edens, Redans and Road Holes through his work. A number of the holes at ANGC were inspired by holes in the UK. Here's his 'Road' hole at Weston-super-Mare.

How much fun is that?!!      I guess that's the closest to a true "template hole" I've seen from Mackenzie.  And well done too!

[Neil_Crafter]

Maybe Mackenzie would have thought "Old Mac" was referring to him - and not that other Old Mac!

Bill, yes it does look like a fun green!

[Garland Bayley]

While Mackenzie might have taken that swipe at 'template' holes, I think it was the expense part that he objected to. ...

That's what I thought to as I am reading Bahto's book and finding about the expense and effort to build NGLA. Not exactly minimalism.

[Dave Falkner]

Garland

I reread the paragraph last night and i think his  beef was the  plopping down of templates  where they dont fit

although he does mention the cost of bringing the surroundings into comformity with the hole

and he also mentions that a lot of the sublety is lost


the subtlety seems to be a theme he revisits over and over again  for instance when he talks about the 8th at st andrews and how his opinion changed over time