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Chris Simonson

Rules Question
« on: May 18, 2010, 12:16:21 AM »
With all do respect to GCA and its members, please only those people with the definitive answer, respond to this post.  A lot of times, the discussion gets off topic quickly....I love GCA, but I only post when I have something significant to say or ask, instead of turning this in to a chat room.....

With that preface, is someone able to explain THREE recent occurances of tour players in hazard, including my own situation in a hazard in a recent GAP match (Golf Association of Philadelphia "Suburban Matches"- which is a privilege to have the opportunity to participate...).

These are tour events, but these situation relate to amateur play, including me recently.

Situation:

1 - Brian Gay at Harbortown - hits a twig in his backswing in a hazard at Harbortown

2 - Michelle Wie - skims the water on her backswing when attempting to hit a ball that is partially submerged

3 - Bobby Clampett - absolutely hitting the reeds on his backswing in a hazard, but not being considered for a penalty, HOWEVER, his caddie was considered for a penalty for potentialy testing the area (which I understand)

It appears to me that #1 and #2 were penalized for stirking ANYTHING in their backswing while in a hazard, yet, Clampett was not penalized?

Logic deamnds there MUST  be an answer--could someone help me understand this "apparent" inconsistency?

My own situation in the GAP match was that I was outside of the hazard area, but I touched/cleared a branch in the hazard in my line of play....??  What is the ruling on this situation?

Perhpas former professional Slonis or perennial top amateur Sully know the answer (Jim, did Pops Ray tell me you used to be a Pro???).

Sully, fyi,  you had one of the best golf examples of sportsmaship I've ever seen, while  in the GAP playoff when you played against Tash at Tavistock. It was on hole #14.  Maybe you remember???

Thanks,
Chris

AndrewB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2010, 12:37:51 AM »
1. Brian Gay touched a loose impediment before making a stroke at a ball in a hazard.  See 13-4c and the definition of stroke.
2. Michell Wie touched water before making a stroke at a ball in a hazard.  See 13-4b and the definition of stroke.
3. I assume the reeds Bobby Clampett touched were not loose impediments and instead were growing.  See the note to 13-4.  His caddie I'm guessing was thought to have touched the ground in the hazard or tested the condition before a stroke was made, which would have violated 13-4b or a, but they ruled it inconclusive as to whether he was in the hazard or not and gave him the benefit of doubt.

The difference is Brian Gay and Michelle Wie touched things they were not allowed to, a loose impediment and the water respectively.  But Bobby Clampett touched something growing and the note specifically allows this.

Your situation is different since your ball wasn't in the hazard.  It falls under 13-2.  If you improved the area of your intended stance or swing, that is a violation of the Rule.
"I think I have landed on something pretty fine."

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2010, 01:51:08 PM »
"....instead of turning this in to a chat room....."

I hate to break this to you, Chris, but this place is most definitely a chat room!

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Rules Question
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 01:58:39 PM »

Chris

Contact Barry Rhodes 

See his details through HomeofGolfTV  link  http://www.homeofgolf.tv/2009/06/16/barry-rhodes-on-the-rules-of-golf-interview-episode-8/ . There are contact details on that link page.

Melvyn


JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 02:04:46 PM »
Chris,

Don't remember what happened on #14 too well...was he in Ground Under Repair?

I do remember his face when I made about a 20 footer on 17 through 8 feet of apron for 3 to close him out...priceless!

I think the line of logic you saw on TV is based on fixed versus loose objects. The first two effected loose objects whereas Clampett hit the equivalent of the top of grass blades.

Your situation sounds totally different if you were out of the hazard, and it sounds like you moved, and fixed, a branch or long grass that was not loose but was in your swing. Did you move it to clear a path for your stance or swing?

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 02:11:00 PM »
Irish Stew

Ingredients

    * 4 pounds lamb shoulder, cubed
    * 1 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt
    * 1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
    * 1/4 cup vegetable oil
    * 24 pearl onions, peeled, root end trimmed
    * 2 medium carrots, cut into 1 1/2-inch pieces
    * 1/2 cup dried pearl barley
    * 3 cups chicken stock or water
    * 2 cups stout
    * 1 bay leaf
    * 1 tablespoon chopped fresh thyme leaves
    * 12 new potatoes, cut in half
    * 1/4 cup finely chopped fresh parsley leaves, for garnish
    * 1 tablespoon finely chopped fresh chives, for garnish

Directions:
(Irish Soda Bread recipe follows)
Special equipment: a 12-quart pot with a tight-fitting lid
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.
Season the meat with salt and pepper.
Heat pot over medium high heat and add the vegetable oil. Working in small batches, saute the lamb until golden brown in color. Set aside. Add the onion, carrots, and barley to the pot. Stir to coat, about 1 minute. Add the chicken stock, stout, bay leaf, and thyme to the pot. Return the lamb to the pot, place the potatoes on top and bring to a simmer. Cover and cook for 1 1/2 to 2 hours or until the lamb is fork tender.
Season with salt and pepper, to taste. Garnish with the parsley and chives. Serve with Irish Soda Bread.

Irish Soda Bread:

    * 2 cups whole wheat bread flour
    * 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour, plus more for dusting
    * 1/2 cup old-fashioned rolled oats
    * 2 tablespoons brown sugar
    * 2 teaspoons salt
    * 1 teaspoon baking soda
    * 1 teaspoon baking powder
    * 3 tablespoons unsalted butter, cold
    * 1 1/2 cups buttermilk
    * 1 egg

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.
In a large bowl, combine the flours, oats, brown sugar, salt, baking soda, and baking powder. Grate the cold butter into the dry ingredients and blend by hand until the mixture resembles cornmeal.
In a small bowl, whisk together the buttermilk and the egg. Using your hands, mix the wet and dry mixtures together until the dough can be formed into a ball.
Turn the dough out on to a lightly floured surface and knead for 5 minutes until soft and elastic. Shape the dough into a round loaf, about 6 inches in diameter. Place on a parchment-lined baking sheet.
Dust the top of the loaf with flour. Use a sharp knife to cut an "X" into the dough, about half the depth of the loaf and to within 1-inch of the edge. Bake for 45 to 50 minutes (see Cook's Note*).
*Cook's Note: The finished loaf should sound hollow when the bottom is tapped.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2010, 02:14:42 PM »
Jim,

Do I have to flip it over and read it backwards to get the hidden meaning?

Chris Shaida

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2010, 02:16:09 PM »
Jim K, that's funny!

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 02:19:33 PM »
Jim,

Chris Shaida will explain it to you.  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 02:22:25 PM »
I think he was just trying to make you feel good...but I'm struggling decoding it so I'll take all the help I can get...

Chris Shaida

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 03:10:50 PM »
Far be it from me to be trying to make anybody 'feel good' ;D

As far as help in decoding goes I'd start with Chris W's (btw, if I were trying to make anybody 'feel good' it should be a fellow 'Chris'!) pre-emptive presumption at the end of his first paragraph and then take in Bill M's note and, voila!, a recipe for Irish Stew.  Crystal clear now, yes! And funny!

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 09:16:10 PM »
Hey Chris, did you win the father son since Kevin and I could not play?  ;D

Glad Andrew answered your rule question! But I gotta say, I love the way you ask us to keep it on the rules topic, the YOU go off topic to acknowledge Sully's sportsmansip ... (Just so you know we are paying attention ;D

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rules Question
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 09:36:52 PM »
.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon