Are TOUR courses too hard?

[John_Conley]

We've discussed that many TOUR set-ups aren't enough to challenge today's player, but with the struggles the Senior set had at Siebel and the last two weeks in Florida (Bay Hill and TPC at Sawgrass), the thought crossed my mind that if all setups were this hard the popularity with the average viewer may decline.

I relish the opportunity to watch bogies.  Good firm greens go a long way to make them happen.  Good 9 scores are centered around 33-37 instead of 31-35.

How do you feel about this

[Tim_Weiman]

John,

I am completely bored with the pros driver  and short iron game.  Tougher golf courses would be more interesting.  It would make the pro game easier to relate to.

[A_Clay_Man]

Anyone who didn't enjoy watching Joe Durant, the previous year, swing as sweet as one possibly could and go lower than low is a real midwestern downhome snob. Besides ain't it all about goin low? And the only real justification for the Hope is all the money generated and donated to charities?
But I guess you'd probably never figure that ayuh?

[Michael_Burrows]

If your look at alot of the courses that TOUR players play they are your older more Classic type of course. Why? Because these courses have been around and where hard to Players in their day.  In the 1920s a bogie was equal to what we consider a par today. I know some of you guys don't want to hear it but yes we need to set restrictions on golf clubs and their metals. The game of golf has change.

As we all known "THESE GUYS ARE GOOD" so yes of course they are going to shoot 3 to 5 under a round and thus 12 to 20 under for four rounds .

I do feel that harder golf courses need to be designed but you have to consider the lower level players do not want to see 650 to 700 yard par 5's. It would not be worth it.  Faster greens, deeper fairway bunkers,and thicker rough is what is need on tour. Plus many other elements.      

[Brian Phillips]

I like it being hard but not too hard like at Carnoustie.

A_Clay_Man,

Is the whole point to watch players go low...

Not in my opinion.  I don't mind one or two hitting a purple patch and going low but when half the field go low on Saturday and Sunday I find it boring.

I love it when the wind gets up and the player really has to start thinking.  I love it on the 12th at Augusta and the wind is just swirling a bit and you can see the fear on all the players faces.  Wind is one of the best things in golf to strike fear into a player, why? Because it is unprdictable and they hate that.

Another thing...

I don't think it should be the Greenkeeper's responsibility to make a course difficult.  The course should be designed so that is is difficult through tee postions and I don't just mean length I mean by different angles over bunkers or angeles to get to the perfect landing areas.

I don't hink the courses are too easy I just think the courses they play on are boring...not players.

Brian

[JohnH]

I guess it all boils down to whether or not people want to watch Sunday afternoons to the tune of the leader at 20 under par, or 5 under.  Personally I choose the latter.

[R. Wesselman]

I want to see the best all-around golfers. Most of the pros on tour can hit them straight, but can they hit shots from trees, off of hardpan, or off a thin spot of turf without needing an official to give them a drop. Us normal golfers are used to all of this.
I like watching guys like Tiger, Sergio and Phil for the shots they attempt out of trouble. They are always thinking offensively, although that sometimes comes back to haunt them.
I say if someone hits one over the grandstands, find it and play it. Isn't there a rule in golf where it says, "play it where it lies."

[A_Clay_Man]

Brian- I feel as though my comment of  "ain't it all about goin low" was primal to the game. As few as stroke as possible. Thats what I always thought the brass ring was for. Not necc. watching someone else.  Now, with all the crying about this and that equipment wise I just think it is up to the designer, of the future, to fight back with some of his own technology, that being the tough angles and shot values you promoted. I also think that the designer can be aided by the maintenance meld. Which IMHO This group seems to have hit upon as a solution to the reality of todays ballstriker.

[Dan King]

One word sums up what the Tour should do, and that one word is:
"Virtual Golf"

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is `to be prepared'."
-- Vice President Dan Quayle, 12/6/89

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I am bored with the tour. gib wrote a wonderful article on the LPGA and I think the mens tour is almost out of touch too. That is tiger or no tiger. The courses seem to play the same every week with only the major geographical changes fom region to region providing any difference at all. Perks made this week fun because of the crazy way he won. Oddly somone really trying to win or blow it made it better than the well 5th is still winning the tour gives us.

[Matt_Cohn]

Easier courses turn PGA Tour events into putting contests, which I find boring to watch. Harder courses result in players hitting a lot of different kinds of shots (hopefully), which I think is more interesting to watch. Since a lot of it is about TV anyway, I think watching driver-wedge-putt week after week wouldn't be good for the Tour.

[John_Conley]

We've [/b] all agreed that TOUR courses are not too hard, and that we'd actually watch MORE if they faced sterner tests.

Since I posted this, we had one of the greatest televised events ever - on a course fitting of a $1,000,000 payday.

The "trailer" for the network had to be buzzing.  Trying to make sure they showed a lot of the winner's shots when any one of a dozen or so guys could have prevailed.

GCA.com members have weighed in: Tougher setups for the play-for-pay set.