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Michael Taylor

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USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« on: March 26, 2010, 07:46:53 AM »
G'day Gents,

I've just been wondering if there are any of the 'great' courses in America that have juniors as a part of the club, and any that take up a large portion of the membership.

Because I'm sure that courses like Pine Valley and CPC do not have junior members, but rather adults that have been known to the club for a significant amount of time.

So what are some of the best courses in the US that accept juniors as a part of the club, and is it still as tough to get in as a junior?

Thanks,

Pup

jonathan_becker

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 08:56:17 AM »
Pup,

I know that there are a few top 100s in my state of Ohio that offer junior memberships.  Clubs are hurting and trying to fill the open spots.  Some have reduced initiations and monthly dues for ages 40 and under or 35 and under or whatever the club deems a junior member. 

If you describe a "junior member" as a minor, then most of those kids just play under their parents' membership.  However, some clubs offer outstanding junior golfers access based on their playing abilities or through a high school golf team.  But I wouldn't call it a membership.

As with most clubs around the world, if you have a family member that's currently a member of a club, you can get a membership as a legacy.  Most of the time, that's for people right out of college.  This would be the case at NSW, correct?

Maybe the guys that play out of Olympic can add to the discussion.  I know they have tons of members and they actually offered Johnny Miller the first junior membership when he was a kid back in the day.


Michael Taylor

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 09:04:13 AM »
Jon,

What are the clubs in Ohio? I wouldn't mind a spot at The Golf Club.  :D

What do you mean by a legacy? The case over here is if you have a family member who is part of the club, then they can nominate you (provided they meet some standards) and get you in much quicker than if you didn't have any blood relations with a member. Also there are quite a few clubs here that give out free memberships (with the premise you play 'pennants' for them), but NSWGC is not one of them.

Interesting trivia about Olympic.

Pup


Kenny Baer

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2010, 09:14:44 AM »
Most clubs have Jr. Memberships; even the top of the top; typically a Jr. membership means you are under the age of 40.   Becoming a Jr. member is just like becoming a regular member; you have to be invited unless it is at a club where the roster is not filled.  Most clubs have limited spots for Jr. members.  From my understanding of Jr. Membership it has nothing to do with being a child.  I guess if you play golf like Johnny Miller you can be an honorary member.

jonathan_becker

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2010, 09:19:56 AM »
Pup,

No one gets on The Golf Club.  ;D  I've lived in Ohio for 85% of my life and have never played it, nor do I know anyone personally that's played it.  I know there are many members of this discussion group that have played it, but I am not one of them.  I can't imagine they would have a junior membership program.

Off the top of my head....Inverness, Canterbury, Canton Brookside all offer reduced fees for people under 40.  I know Scioto has a junior membership, but the initiation remains large.  

Legacy means exactly what you described.  


Scott Warren

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2010, 11:10:47 AM »
Jonathan,

I think Michael is referring to an U18 membership.

John Lyon has explained his Oak Hill access as an U22 to me, perhaps he will chime in and explain how that works as a high-end private club vs the system in Aus, where U18s can join a club and typically pay less than $300 a year. Obviously at the higher-end clubs that is (a) more expensive and (b) more difficult to get in - just as with adult memberships.

jonathan_becker

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2010, 11:15:33 AM »
Scott,

I realize that now for the U18.  If Lyon's parents aren't members at Oak Hill and he's a member, then that's amazingly awesome.

If you want an U18 membership in America, 99% of the time it's going to be at a public course paying an annual fee.

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2010, 12:12:11 PM »
For decades The Olympic Club has offered the opportunity for good junior players to join the club even if they are not a legacy.  As noted above, this started with Johnny Miller back in the early 1960's.  It is a great opportunity for young players who do not have the good fortune to have a family membership at a private club.  The openings are competitive, though.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Michael Taylor

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2010, 03:54:14 PM »
Yes I am referring to under 18 memberships.

So it is safe to say that there wouldn't be any "Juniors" at places like Shinny, CPC, PV, NGLA etc?

Pup

Will MacEwen

Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2010, 04:29:15 PM »
I knew some guys who had U-18 memberships at top private clubs in Vancouver.  Of the four I am thinking of, none were legacy, and none were top players. 

Mike Sweeney

Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 04:39:24 PM »
Merion has always had a strong junior program and I played The West a bunch as a guest of a junior member. Now one of my buddies son is on the Junior Golf Team at Merion and last summer they had a trip to Westchester and Long Island that included Winged Foot and Shinnecock if I remember.

Andrew Thomson

Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 06:24:47 PM »
Yes I am referring to under 18 memberships.

So it is safe to say that there wouldn't be any "Juniors" at places like Shinny, CPC, PV, NGLA etc?

Pup

There probably is, if you're father/uncle/brother/grandfather is a member.

JohnV

Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 07:01:08 PM »
A number of private courses around Northern CA offer playing privileges to good junior players whose parents are not members.  Among ones I'm famliar with are Castlewood and Blackhawk.  I believe MPCC does also.

JNC Lyon

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 10:17:16 PM »
Scott,

I realize that now for the U18.  If Lyon's parents aren't members at Oak Hill and he's a member, then that's amazingly awesome.

If you want an U18 membership in America, 99% of the time it's going to be at a public course paying an annual fee.


My father is a member at Oak Hill, meaning a few things.  First, I can play under his membership with the purchase of a tag.  The club has different tags for different levels of junior players and for different costs.  Second, my playing hours have some restrictions, depending on what type of tag I purchase.  Third, I can only play under my dad's membership until I am either 25 or gainfully employed.  You cannot have membership status at Oak Hill until age 18.  It is a good setup because I can play unlimited golf under my Dad's membership.  However, I will not have that privilege for much longer, and I certainly will not be able to afford membership at Oak Hill after I am out on my own.

I believe this is how most memberships work for juniors/minors in the US.  I know very few people my age who are members of big clubs on their own.  One of my buddies is a non-resident member at Fox Chapel and has been so for a couple of years.  However, most kids my age are playing under their parents' memberships at clubs.  There are some clubs that don't allow kids to play until a certain age.  I think the minimum age at Laurel Valley is 16, for example.  I always found that silly.  It does not make sense that a middle-aged 25 handicapper could play a course that a 14 year-old scratch golfer could not.

I rather like how things work in Britain for golf.  I could NEVER join a highly-regarded club in the United States at age 20.  I would not have the funds.  Yet I am able to do so over here.  As it stands now, the private club system in the US does not encourage younger golfers to club members on their own.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Steve Strasheim

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 10:22:28 PM »
One of our local private clubs recently started offering this, which I think is pretty cool.

For the student athlete excelling in Golf, Tennis and Swimming

Qualifications: Athlete must be between the ages of 14-22. Must be enrolled in High School or Secondary Education Courses.

Annual Fee: $800 Membership to include:
Golf: Full golf course access and includes driving range. Please note that golf privileges will be limited on Wednesday & Friday afternoons along with Saturday & Sunday Mornings.
Tennis: Access to tennis courts. Ability to participate on tennis team (Dependent upon age)
Swimming: Use of swimming facilities. Eligibility to participate on swim team (Dependent upon age)
Parents must sign a consent form if they want to give the student athlete the ability to charge to an account.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 10:25:35 PM »
One of our local private clubs recently started offering this, which I think is pretty cool.

For the student athlete excelling in Golf, Tennis and Swimming

Qualifications: Athlete must be between the ages of 14-22. Must be enrolled in High School or Secondary Education Courses.

Annual Fee: $800 Membership to include:
Golf: Full golf course access and includes driving range. Please note that golf privileges will be limited on Wednesday & Friday afternoons along with Saturday & Sunday Mornings.
Tennis: Access to tennis courts. Ability to participate on tennis team (Dependent upon age)
Swimming: Use of swimming facilities. Eligibility to participate on swim team (Dependent upon age)
Parents must sign a consent form if they want to give the student athlete the ability to charge to an account.


I would say the price is a bit steep.  Nevertheless, the offer is cool.  It is definitely the type of thing that more American clubs should be doing.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Chris Flamion

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 10:48:36 PM »
One of our local private clubs recently started offering this, which I think is pretty cool.

For the student athlete excelling in Golf, Tennis and Swimming

Qualifications: Athlete must be between the ages of 14-22. Must be enrolled in High School or Secondary Education Courses.

Annual Fee: $800 Membership to include:
Golf: Full golf course access and includes driving range. Please note that golf privileges will be limited on Wednesday & Friday afternoons along with Saturday & Sunday Mornings.
Tennis: Access to tennis courts. Ability to participate on tennis team (Dependent upon age)
Swimming: Use of swimming facilities. Eligibility to participate on swim team (Dependent upon age)
Parents must sign a consent form if they want to give the student athlete the ability to charge to an account.



As a swimming golfer, I would have used the daylights out of this. 

The local club has an under 35 option that they just instated, unfortunately instead of the cost of a Mercedes it is the cost of a Prius to get the initiation fee still, so doesn't do me much good.

On the whole I feel the American system of clubs is flawed, but I know of no way to fix it.

Lyne Morrison

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2010, 01:16:25 AM »

Given the constraints mentioned above how do junior development programs work in the US?

How are the U18's encouraged to develop their game at a competitive level?

Do you have an equivalent to our 'pennant' -- an inter club, match play comp - where private and public clubs will have a junior team participate at a district level? Would this be akin to league?

Pup - you would have to be thinking that Australia is a pretty good country just now.

Cheers - Lyne

Michael Taylor

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2010, 01:26:44 AM »
I sure am grateful Lyne. The reason why I ask is because a junior can get a membership at a place like NSWGC, RM, KH over here after only like a 1 year waiting period. Yet look at America, it seems much tougher for a junior to join a top notch course, which is unfortunate for them.

Pup

Lyne Morrison

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2010, 01:48:27 AM »

Indeed!

Pup it would be interesting to learn if there is a pennant equivalent for the juniors that provides access to the better courses.

I find it fascinating that golf is experienced in so many different ways across the globe - and I suspect the way we have it here is about as good as it gets.

Expect you are working on end of term assignments on a sunny saturday afternoon  : )

Cheers - Lyne

Steve Strasheim

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2010, 09:45:15 AM »
As a point of reference, the normal monthly dues for the same adult membership is $350.

It's quite a discount and awesome for parents who can't afford the normal dues, but want their kids to have the opportunity.


One of our local private clubs recently started offering this, which I think is pretty cool.

For the student athlete excelling in Golf, Tennis and Swimming

Qualifications: Athlete must be between the ages of 14-22. Must be enrolled in High School or Secondary Education Courses.

Annual Fee: $800 Membership to include:
Golf: Full golf course access and includes driving range. Please note that golf privileges will be limited on Wednesday & Friday afternoons along with Saturday & Sunday Mornings.
Tennis: Access to tennis courts. Ability to participate on tennis team (Dependent upon age)
Swimming: Use of swimming facilities. Eligibility to participate on swim team (Dependent upon age)
Parents must sign a consent form if they want to give the student athlete the ability to charge to an account.


I would say the price is a bit steep.  Nevertheless, the offer is cool.  It is definitely the type of thing that more American clubs should be doing.

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2010, 08:38:17 PM »

Indeed!

Pup it would be interesting to learn if there is a pennant equivalent for the juniors that provides access to the better courses.

I find it fascinating that golf is experienced in so many different ways across the globe - and I suspect the way we have it here is about as good as it gets.

Expect you are working on end of term assignments on a sunny saturday afternoon  : )

Cheers - Lyne


Nope I'm having a good day just sitting on my computer, reading about GCA.  :)

I think I read somewhere awhile ago that Winged Foot had a good junior program. Is that true or is it my imagination? Any other great courses with Junior members you gents know of (top 100)?

Pup

JR Potts

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2010, 10:15:46 PM »
Medinah is a family country club and has a robust junior program and a junior membership program.  Further, there are talks about opening up junior memberships to non-legacy members.  I also believe that Olympia Fields has a great "junior" program.

john_stiles

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2010, 10:42:28 PM »

Holston Hills in Knoxville has an interesting junior golf membership.

It is a  $250 annual fee, plus  $38 per month.  Must be  UNDER 19 and in high school. The interesting restriction is that parents cannot be members of another Club.    Renews yearly in August.   Club limits this  'junior membership'  to 35 juniors.  Cost works out to about  $65 per month.  This allows includes unlimited range balls.   You can play almost year in Knoxville although it might be very cold, and we play into the low 30s.  We only get a few weeks in total of snow and ice, or all day subfreezing temps closing the course.

Holston Hills is a family club so member's children are also welcome to play, and the professional staff runs junior clinics all summer for member's children and junior members.

Unfortunately,  I  cannot think of a single junior who has returned as a member.   

But it looks like they are all having a blast while playing and practicing.
 

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: USA courses with Active Junior Membership
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2010, 01:16:54 AM »

Holston Hills in Knoxville has an interesting junior golf membership.

It is a  $250 annual fee, plus  $38 per month.  Must be  UNDER 19 and in high school. The interesting restriction is that parents cannot be members of another Club.    Renews yearly in August.   Club limits this  'junior membership'  to 35 juniors.  Cost works out to about  $65 per month.  This allows includes unlimited range balls.   You can play almost year in Knoxville although it might be very cold, and we play into the low 30s.  We only get a few weeks in total of snow and ice, or all day subfreezing temps closing the course.

Holston Hills is a family club so member's children are also welcome to play, and the professional staff runs junior clinics all summer for member's children and junior members.

Unfortunately,  I  cannot think of a single junior who has returned as a member.   

But it looks like they are all having a blast while playing and practicing.
 


That's a really neat set up.  Hopefully you will have some of those kids join later down the line.

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