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Pete_Pittock

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New Tee on the Road Hole
« on: March 29, 2010, 07:38:59 PM »
The World Golf Architecture Forum convoked at St Andrews also looked at the championship tee of the 17th hole. Enamoured they weren't.

http://digital.globalgolfpost.com/globalgolfpost/20100329#pg11
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Matt_Ward

Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 07:56:55 PM »
be curious to know if the R&A will actually cut the grass on the right side to allow for more strategic calculations instead of forcing play further and further left as has been done recently.
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 11:00:02 PM »
An interesting article!

That safe tee shot to the 2nd fairway will threaten players on two other holes and on 16 and 2 greens, should be interesting!
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Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 07:58:30 AM »
Does anyone think they might not use the new tee?     
If they do I predict someone (Quiros) will start their ball to the right of the hotel !
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Simon Holt

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Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 08:02:10 AM »
Good point Gary.  I would think some more netting might be in/on order!

As ever, it all depends on the wind.  It already annoys me that a lot of the Open tees on the Old are half way back down the previous fairway.  What next, the 2nd tee on top of the caddyshack?  Slight exageration....
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2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 08:12:17 AM »
This tee and the realization that the R&A will leave no stone unturned as they bastardize the Old Course to "protect par," is it possible some of the strategy of the course is being circumvented?

For example, do any of the new tees take any dangerous hidden bunkers or landforms out of range?
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Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 08:16:47 AM »
I don't think so, Bill - in fact they might just bring a few back into consideration.

I had a good look at the new tee, and, although I am irritated at its necessity, it didn't in itself bother me. It doesn't look especially out of place, it doesn't set any precedents that the Open tees at 2 and 14 haven't already set, and it should mean that the horrible, embarrassing rough that narrowed the 17th fairway to about five yards at the last Open won't be grown this year.

Given where the game is as we approach the 2010 Open, it was the right thing to do (Which doesn't mean I approve of where the game is).
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 08:25:13 AM »
Quote from: Adam Lawrence on March 30, 2010, 08:16:47 AM
I don't think so, Bill - in fact they might just bring a few back into consideration.

I had a good look at the new tee, and, although I am irritated at its necessity, it didn't in itself bother me. It doesn't look especially out of place, it doesn't set any precedents that the Open tees at 2 and 14 haven't already set, and it should mean that the horrible, embarrassing rough that narrowed the 17th fairway to about five yards at the last Open won't be grown this year.

Given where the game is as we approach the 2010 Open, it was the right thing to do (Which doesn't mean I approve of where the game is).

I was fairly amazed at the 2005 Open to see the field, not just a few long knockers, ignore Hell Bunker.  I watched for at least 90 minutes for three days and didn't see one player in Hell or even over in the 5th fairway (like I have to play the hole  ;) ).

That ain't right.  And that was from the new back tee out on the Eden course!

To build on Simon's thought, what's next, a tee on a boat in the Eden for the ninth tee?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 11:22:36 AM by Bill_McBride »
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jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 08:36:56 AM »
Wouldn't there be the spectators to contend with as well near the 16th green?  You just can't blast it over them either.
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Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2010, 08:40:34 AM »
It will restrict access to the back right of 16 green, but then so did the old tee. It's not a great corner of the course for viewing.
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 10:20:25 AM »
Whilst I'm tempted to agree with Adam on this point, I'm not going to...

I see a huge problem with the angle / ability to reach the right side of the fairway from the back tee because of the hotel....

One thing that struck me at the weekend when I was standing on the forward tee was how much the angle changes depending on where they place the markers on any one day... Normally, they are at the right of the tee and you are aiming over the "Hotel" in the "Old Course Hotel" sign on the sheds... But on this day, they were on the left side of the tee (only 10 yards left) and it made a massive difference to where you were aiming... generally just on the corner of the sheds...

The back tee is just going to force drives on to the second fairway which automatically means people will play to the 18th tee for that difficult pin position...

Not to mention safety for the hotel, the 2nd fairway and the 16th green...
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Brian_Ewen

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Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 09:46:51 PM »
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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2010, 07:59:45 AM »
What I would be interested to know is whether there was any discussions with the owners of the hotel as to the siting of this tee. This is a typical example of the problems that alot of older courses in the UK have that they haven't protected there boundaries enough meaning that when development takes place adjacent to there boundary they are forced to take measures to reroute the course so as not to be landing balls over the boundary.

From a commercial perspective The Old Course Hotel is unlikely to complain but legally they could have the hole shut down by getting an interim interdict served on the Links Trust. I wonder if Mr Kohler appreciates how much power he has in the home of golf.

Niall
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2010, 08:30:44 AM »
Quote from: Niall Carlton on March 31, 2010, 07:59:45 AM
What I would be interested to know is whether there was any discussions with the owners of the hotel as to the siting of this tee. This is a typical example of the problems that alot of older courses in the UK have that they haven't protected there boundaries enough meaning that when development takes place adjacent to there boundary they are forced to take measures to reroute the course so as not to be landing balls over the boundary.

From a commercial perspective The Old Course Hotel is unlikely to complain but legally they could have the hole shut down by getting an interim interdict served on the Links Trust. I wonder if Mr Kohler appreciates how much power he has in the home of golf.

Niall

I am positive that discussion would have taken place Niall... It would have been a huge miss by the R&A or Links Trust if it didn't...
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Gary Slatter

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Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2010, 09:13:00 AM »
Kohler got to buy Hamilton House! 
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2010, 09:18:15 AM »
Quote from: Gary Slatter on March 31, 2010, 09:13:00 AM
Kohler got to buy Hamilton House! 

I hope someone told him that they won't be able to see the Course from there during an Open... 8)
cheers,
FBD.

Oh and PS: The new tee isn't on the Road Hole - it's on THE EDEN!!!!!!! Harumph, harumph.... >:(
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2010, 09:25:13 AM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on March 31, 2010, 09:18:15 AM
Quote from: Gary Slatter on March 31, 2010, 09:13:00 AM
Kohler got to buy Hamilton House! 

Oh and PS: The new tee isn't on the Road Hole - it's on THE EDEN!!!!!!! Harumph, harumph.... >:(

You know this new(ish) trend of cutting the first tee of the course at the same height and tied in to the practice putting green (as seen at The Renaissance Club)...

I just realised where I first saw it - on the Himalyas at St Andrews... The R&A were setting a design trend with that pro 2nd tee!
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2010, 09:33:03 AM »
Marty

The Eden, now in my youth I am certain there was a golf course by that name at St Andrews, today I am told it has been modified to a Park allowing the old and infirm to walk with their golfing trolleys remembering the glory days of the past.

Did I not see you there last Sunday with the Police trying to remove you from the course for your language and club throwing antics. Must say not bad distance for a man of your age, oops sorry experience. Perhaps next time the ball may go further than the club :-[ ;)

Have fun as always

Melvyn

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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2010, 11:00:09 AM »
Melvyn,
I was there indeed last Sunday, but you must have mistaken me for a man who cares enough about his golf game to throw golf clubs when not performing well. I believe, IIRC, the last club I threw was sometime in early 1974 - may have been at a golf course in Fauldhouse....and I WAS only 14!

I had the immense great pleasure of golfing with GCAers Niall Carlton, Neil Crafter and non-GCAer(yet!) Nick Norton. We had a very jolly time, given the Hoolie that was blowing across old St Andrews Links.

Poor Neil C was heading north this week with various members of his entourage. I say poor as northern Scotland has just been re-visited by Winter's icy blasts and a couple of days of HEAVY Snow! I look forward to hearing of their exploits...

BTW, we were fairly united in our opinions of the Eden (old and new.... ;))

cheers,
FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: New Tee on the Road Hole
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2010, 11:58:39 AM »

Marty

Wonder what old Willie Rusack would think of the Eden today. He held the course record just after it opened and was well know in St Andrews after the war, going round the town on his horse. Willie was not a small man and his poor horse reflected his weight by the dip in his back.

I have seen the reports for the North, I hope all are well and that Niall keeps indoors as not even a dram (or two  - as who can stop at one) from the'Bottles of Life' will do much good in these conditions. 

Melvyn
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