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Jud_T

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Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2010, 05:57:19 PM »
Yes-in Green Lake, Wisconsin
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Peter Pallotta

Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 06:13:18 PM »
It's always struck me how early on -- even before they opened sometimes -- the golf courses we consider great (now) were considered great (then).   Sure, some of the earliest courses -- like some of today's Golf Digest's Best New -- dropped off the map either right away or over the decades; but it seems very few courses that weren't highly rated originally have ever seen their reputations rise. (Crystal Downs is one -- but even then I'm not sure it wasn't highly regarded originally).  All of which interests me because, for all our reasonable talk about preferences and rankings being personal and subjective, it sure seems that there must be something very objective and impersonal about greatness and timeless architecture -- a greatness that is spotted immediately, and that retains its reputation and proves it can stand the test of time (and of changing tastes).  I still don't know how to 'objectify' the principles of great gca, but I'm more convinced than ever that these principles must exist -- and this thread helps do the convincing.

Peter    
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 10:30:07 PM by PPallotta »

Mac Plumart

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Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2010, 06:36:44 PM »
Peter...great post.  I think you are right.  Greatness will stand the test of time.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Carl Nichols

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Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2010, 06:53:45 PM »
I agree -- great post. 

What courses have risen and fallen the most in perception from opening day? 

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2010, 08:58:05 PM »
I once knew a guy named Pallotta.  ;) 

He too used to write good posts.   

Bob


Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2010, 10:19:35 PM »
I am sure there are some who put something up a notch because a particular course was very exclusive and the experience was therefore overwhelming when the opportunity to play finally arose.

At the same time, I think a very good course that is accessible also has one distinct advantage working for it, which is the ability to get familiar with it.

I still place Pacific Dunes ahead of Sand Hills and Ballyneal in my mind and a good part of that may well be the fact that I've played it more than twice as much as I've played Ballyneal and three times as much as I've played Sand Hills - and I'm going back and playing it three more times in May/June.  Every time I've been it has gotten better, and the chances are that would hold true for the private courses as well if I had the opportunity for repeat plays (I know it is true for Ballyneal as I have been fortunate to make the trip more than once).

John Mayhugh

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Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2010, 11:12:32 PM »
Yes-in Green Lake, Wisconsin

Lawsonia is about as good a value as there is.  Not sure what the current access policy is at Yale, but I think in recent years a call from your pro would do the trick in non-peak hours.

Others that may be considered top 100 are Chambers Bay & World Woods Pine Barrens. 

Mike Cirba

Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2010, 11:13:35 PM »
Peter,

You really should post more, if possible.

Your common sense approach is missed and is anything but common.

Andy Troeger

Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2010, 10:20:00 AM »
I've played a lot more of the top modern courses than I have the classics to this point. Of the 15 or classics I have seen I think most are just excellent courses.

In browsing through some of my photos from the last couple years I came across a situation that does seem to play here, however. Old Corkscrew and The Concession are two recent Nicklaus designs in Florida that I played a little over a year ago on the same trip. In my opinion they are very similar courses--both are extremely difficult especially around the greens with quite a bit of water in play. They both have a few really good holes but neither would rise to the level of TPC Sawgrass, Calusa Pines, or WW Pine Barrens in Florida. Both are very well maintained, although The Concession is quite remarkable in that regard. The aesthetics are very similar, but The Concession is private and Old Corkscrew is a CCFAD that does offer some memberships if I remember right. The Concession has been ranked highly in all of the major pubs including making a couple top 100 lists, but Old Corkscrew barely has merited mention. At least in that case, I have to wonder what has caused the dramatic difference in rankings.

I also wonder if Black Mesa would be much more highly considered if it were private and/or located somewhere other than Espanola, New Mexico.  Ditto some of the other great value public courses that don't always make the major lists.

Matt_Ward

Re: Would the Great American Courses Be Considered the Best If...
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2010, 11:20:38 AM »
Andy:

Location does matter -- so does clientele who play a course.

You also have certain INGRAINED preferences on this site for certain courses and architects.

Those who have a bit of wanderlust could learn a good deal more -- your point on BM is well said.

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