[Tim Liddy]

Ken Brown is my new favorite golf announcer. He actually blames the golf ball for the changes at Wentworth. I cannot imagine an American TV announcer saying anything bad about a potential sponsor. See this morning's tweets below (they have been reversed) Adam Lawrence (my new favorite golf writer) also tweeted in:

[Marty Bonnar]

It would be very, very cool if Ken joined GCA.....

Ken, you out there???

FBD.

[Tom_Doak]

Is that picture really the 18th green at Wentworth?

[Tim Liddy]

Here is the entire tweet from Ken Brown:

[Tom_Doak]

Well, to paraphrase Anthony Gray, they really "gave us something" there.

I think this is the flip side of his theory.

[Joe Hancock]

Now, that's really giving us something. Tom Doak quoting/ paraphrasing Anthony Gray. Who'd have thought it......

 

[Anthony Gray]

  Give us something that is memorable about each hole. Some things are over the top even goofy. What is appropiate is of course subjective. The elements  I mentioned enhance the architecture and more importantly the golf experience. As far as  Wentworth, I have never played it so I can't make out that picture. As for water fronting greens......TOC 1. How would that play without it? Carnoustie 18. The water features on these holes are not overly intrusive but effect play and add a nice aesthetic element.

  If Tom Doak starts quoting Joe Hancock, I'm outa here.

  Anthony

 

[Tom_Doak]

Anthony:

In some ways I agree with your idea, but here's where it fails ... a par-5 finishing hole is considered kind of dull, so they try to build some version of the 13th at Augusta National, at the end of a heathland course without significant water in play.

I'm thinking there still needs to be a modicum of taste and balance in what sort of features you are going to add in order to make a course more memorable.  That was the problem 20 years ago, too.

[Anthony Gray]

  I agree with balance. Too much is intrusive. As far as Wentworth, It is a classic course and a bold change will never seem to fit. You don't put a dome over Fenway. I not sure if people saw Teth of the Dog hole 2 thread, but that is what I'm talking about. How the hole plays is the main objective, but put in a little spice/personality even if there are purely landscaping features.

  A couple of alligators would be cool in that water fronting 18 at Wentworth.

  Anthony

[Ally Mcintosh]

I believe Ken Brown occasionally dips his toes in to Golf Course Architecture as "consultant" to Ken Moodie at Creative Golf Design... although I'm not sure what the role involves...

I like his early morning "on the course" bits on the telly... He even got out the drawing board and showed the viewers the basics of strategy during the Open at Turnberry last year...

[Adrian_Stiff]

Its all wrong, I could see a big campaign to put it back as it was. I dont like the slope from the green to the sleepers either. Most new reconstructions are trying to look aka 1920 where as this does not even sniff it. I kept an Open Mind but.... its a NO from me. To me Wentwoth just needed new greens pretty much aligned to how the were before with wee tweaks at a few holes.

[Jon Wiggett]

This has been done purely for the tour where taste and balance are not points for consideration

[Mark Chaplin]

As well as the water, ties and steep drop off to the front and left of the green there are deep bunkers to the right giving no bailout. From 80-100 yards out it will still be a tough shot to hit the green for the average player.

It could still be a good finishing hole in matchplay but the golfers approach to it in the PGA will be interesting, I'm not convinced many pros will go for the green in two despite it's length.

[Brian Phillips]

I have seen the "fly thru" with Peter Alliss commentating.  He said the following"....what a view!" and "....extraordinary" to describe the 18th. Now you take that with a pinch of salt I think similar to Mackenzie's comments when driven around a course he did not like. 

I think the hole will have to be re-built within 5-10 years.  It is possibly one of the worst "renovations" in the history of Golf Course Design.  Why they cannot just go out and say it is a redesign I will never understand.  The bunkers at the back are ridiculously difficult to play out of with a downhill lie and water on the other side of the green.  Ernie Els and Greg L have done a woeful job.

From tee to fairway there is the old style of shaping and bunkers and then around the greens it is the modern TPC TV crap...

I have nothing against redesigning old courses and modernising them but to rip the heart of the course out and design something so poor as what has been done is pretty comical especially when you learn how much the whole thing cost. Well done Wentworth in bringing in a team that just does not have respect for Colt or heathland golf.

Lets see what the "balls" of some Editors in the GCA magazine industry are made of.  Are they made of steel (and dare to criticize) or are they made of marshmallow (too scared to upset the establishment).

This is one of the greatest mishaps in the history of golf design.

[Neil_Crafter]

"Lets see what the "balls" of some Editors in the GCA magazine industry are made of.  Are they made of steel (and dare to criticize) or are they made of marshmallow (too scared to upset the establishment)."

Brian, a golf course architecture magazine industry??? Hardly, with just two magazines in the world, one published quarterly and the other annually. More of a cottage industry my friend! When I was editor of Golf Architecture  I deliberately steered the magazine away from being a critique centre for modern designs (or redesigns like Wentworth). You can ask me why over a beer at St Andrews next month.

[Niall C]

I've never played Wentworth but correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the problems with how it played in recent years that it didn't play like a heathland course but was more parkland due to all the trees ? I'm not saying I'm a great fan of what I can see in that photo but if you accept that the course, and therefore the turf, is basically parkland in nature then is building water features in front of greens really that bad ?

If you don't accept that it should be parkland then something more radical is called for. Start up the chainsaws.

Niall

[Brian Phillips]

Niall,

I have to agree that Wentworth had deteriorated into a parkland course over the years and that is much due to poor tree management and poor understanding of heathland management.

There is nothing wrong with redesigning the course with ponds, streams, fireworks, TPC Stadium mounding or whatever but they should not claim that it has been done with the thought of Colt's ideals in the design.  Because they have not.  

The design might be superb (I don't think it is and feel much of it will have to be changed) but they should not claim that it has anything to do with Colt.

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