Himalaya Putting Green - build & plans

[Brett_Morrissy]

I have had a long look but have had trouble finding a thread on this topic.

Does anyone have any info regarding the Himalaya Putting Green at TOC? (plans, area, topo maps) any books available?

I am putting a proposal to my club to build one, the reasons are many, but high on the list are to provide free golf to member's family and the local residents. To have a unique atmosphere around the clubhouse in the utilisation of such an interesting and fun golfing experience, a means to encourage young people, children and women to get a feel for the game without the 'rigours' of 9 or 18 holes or the dreary nature of a driving range.  Also see Will & Colin's Punchbowl video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suo8D-I61bM
"18 holes" of varying length with many contours, mounds, valleys and hollows, even a path to putt over. I am assuming construction costs would not be excessive, maintenance would be in the vicinity of 6-12 hours per week for mowing and general turf maintenance throughout the year, ideal land is avaialble with some exisitng natural contours available.

Currently course turfs are fescues and santa ana. Water is no issue. will proabably require a fence of some description, as we will want to ensure there is not a feeling of just jumping on wherever you wish, but rather via access thru golf ops and the opportuinty to charge $2-$5 to play. A great way to spend an hour or two.


To get this over the line, I want some really solid information to back up my proposal - any help, info or advice would be welcome.

[JC Jones]

I think Anthony Gray posted a hole by hole with a bunch of pictures a few months ago.  Might be worth a search.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I think Anthony Gray posted a hole by hole with a bunch of pictures a few months ago.  Might be worth a search.

Brett:

Here' the link to Anthony's post.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42013.0/

Dónal.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Thanks Donal and JC - will check it out..

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think Anthony Gray posted a hole by hole with a bunch of pictures a few months ago.  Might be worth a search.

Considering the hole locations are made up pretty much on the whim of the fella in the starters box every second morning, I'd be wary that the course "might not appear as it does in the photos"...

I played this on about 8 different days (with 8 different courses) last year... But there were some ridiculous hole to tee walks (I kid you not) and missed opportunities...

[Philip Spogard]

Good point Ally.

One thing is sure - on a good day there is a lot of fun to be had (by everyone).

[Brett Hochstein]

Brett,

What's your subsoil like?  To create landforms truly like that (including many bowls), you need very free draining soil.  Trying to install traditional drainage might be mad for such varying contours; you would have to be quite clever in shaping for directed runoff.  I remember walking by there one evening back in September after they had just irrigated.  There were deep pools (like 1'+) in many of the hollows--that's how free draining the sand is there that they can do that with no worries.  I proposed something similar to this in one of my design studios in college on a pier park to be built on the Hudson River in Lower Manhattan.  Since I was starting from scratch on what would basically a green roof, it was easy to sort out materials and drainage.  You do already have fescue, though, so you might already have the conditions necessary for something like this.  Best of luck and hope it comes through; the Himalayas are a blast.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Brett: free draining sand base - no drainage issues.

Ally: thanks - so how do you prevent the 'ridiculous walks'? Do you have to apply a more serious routing that limits options to play in almost any direction in return for a better selection of holes. (like rough or some other alternative - but clearly we must avoid mini golf rails at all costs...)
More like a Sheep Ranch or HORSE course perhaps
, where you get to choose a pin position?

[Gary Slatter]

It was perfect fun for the period of my stay in St Andrews.   Ally, I never had any tough walks and found the layout fairly similar every time with a few variations.  

Financially I would bet the Putting green is the second most profitable course in the Kingdom.

Anthony is a honourary member and has good connections there!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Brett, Philip,

Being the starter / greenkeeper at the himalyas putting green would actually be a fantastic basic introduction to golf course architecture... there are limitless opportunities to be creative with routing and hole types...

... Many of the times I've played it, you would have to walk about 15 or 20 yards from the previous hole to the next tee... the following hole was then laid out in what someone thought was a reasonable 2 putt, fairly simple hole of about 15-20 yards long... I've often thought that if you followed the old style tradition of teeing off within a couple of club lengths of the previous hole (safety is hardly a problem!), there would have ben some fantastic 40 yard multi-break putts... Unfortunately, like GCA itself, the fella that routes the course is stuck on what is acceptable and standard as opposed to providing fun and inventiveness...

All minor quibbles... Many times, I choose to spend time on the himalyas rather than the golf courses themselves...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ally

The theme may well be that the course is for all comers and so is set out to cater for all.

As for a few yards walk between Pin and Tee, what’s the problem, are you saying you need a cart due to the distance.

There are times I fear that some forget that our courses are made out for the average golfer, if this was a private course then perhaps more would be expected but for my way of thinking I believe they are going about it in the right way. Or do we have to ruin another enjoyable little fun course for the Few?

Melvyn

I jest about the cart. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Melvyn,

I'm being slightly tongue in cheek... To get worked up about minor routing problems on a putting green is to take GCA far too seriously...

But you suffer the same problem... We should be forgetting par (or level 2's)... Even more fun could be had with some more inventive routing is all I'm saying... I don't want the bulldozers in!

P.S. I adore the himalayas in any way they come...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Snap to tongue in cheek... sorry you did not see it that way - cart on the Himalayas, now that would be serious

Melvyn

[Brett_Morrissy]

thanks again Donal for the link to the thread.

can anyone provide some ideas in the areas of maintenance and construction - i.e. how long and how many man hours required - I know it surely is a piece of string...cost is obviously a massive variant with many contributing factors.

I love the idea that one day a piece of the himalaya is perhaps a 15 yard hole and the next day it could 45 yards same finish, but lenthgened beginning - that offers great variety and flexibility.

Are other ideas for a 'natural' obstacle thru the green, instead of the path/track that provides scenic values and depending on the routing strategic also - I think the hazard along the side is also a lot of fun

potential to tempt Tom's Old Mac and CB himself with holes with flavours of the classics, certainly a Redan could be created using grassy hollow or dell.

[Lester George]

Brett,

I suggest you engage a qualified golf course architect.  One who has done one before.  He would be able to answer all of your questions, have the technical and artisitic ability to concieve, design and build what you need, and, most importantly (if you hire the right one) be able to convince your club of its merits and viability. 

Your cause is noble, but it is easier if you bring the "50 mile expert" to carry the ball for you.  That way you will not get bogged down in club politics and personalities. 

Just my recommendation.

Lester

[Brett_Morrissy]

thanks Lester, point taken.

We already have an architect, hopefully he can see it's merit.

Cheers