Gavea G & CC, Rio de Janeiro

[Tom_Doak]

I had the pleasure of visiting Gavea a month ago, as some of you know.  I'm curious whether ANYONE else on this site has played it, other than Mike Young who I've heard from.  I don't remember it coming up in many discussions.  And I'm sorry I don't have a lot of pictures to post.

It is a fascinating small course.  I will try to get an acreage on the course from the map they gave me, but it can't be even as much as 100 acres, and it has a bit more than 100 feet of elevation change from the beachfront holes up to the 4th and 7th greens.  However, the club actually owns much more land than that ... most of it is tropical jungle nature preserve on a very steep 1:1 slope.  The club actually owns up to the 625-meter elevation within its boundaries.  That's GOT to be a record.

It's a par-69 with six par three holes, reminiscent of Rye in that missing the greens on the par-3's could make for a very long day.  The sixth hole, in particular, is a narrow target with 30-foot drops to both sides if you miss the small bunkers which hem in the green.  I fanned a 6-iron shot out to the right, and was lucky to hole out in less than double digits.

In short, it's a course of raw beauty and a fair amount of quirk, crammed in between the sea and the mountains, and the kind of course where you are nearly always just one mistake away from a big number.  It's a pretty good metaphor for Rio itself.  And it's a great place to visit.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Did you manage to play Itahanga as well?
That is a nice course by Brazilian standards and great food!!!!!

[Tom_Doak]

Michael:

I saw Itahanga from helicopter, but did not walk the course.  They had recently had one of Jack Nicklaus' associates come take a look at the course as a potential Olympic site.  But, it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.  Part of the course is subject to flooding, it would cost a lot of money to fix that, and there is no way the Rio Organizing Committee is going to put money into a private club so they can host one of the events.

The Olympic venue is still up in the air.  There are a couple of possibilities.  Gavea is not one of them, and I was happy to confirm that for the club so they can get back to enjoying their course.

P.S.  What does "a nice course by Brazilian standards" mean?  Those are the only two golf courses in Rio!  They ARE the Brazilian standard, for better or worse.

[Tony Weiler]

Tom, I've not played it.  I do have a question, however, what is your role, if you don't mind me asking?  You say you confimed to Gavea that it was not a possible Olympic venue; what was the basis for this, and was it something the club asked you to do?  Just curious, thanks. 

[Alex Miller]

Tom:

What would you say odds are that the olympic course has already been built? 5:1? 10:1?

[Tom_Doak]

Tony:

A friend of mine is on the board at Gavea.  He had been asking me for several years to make time to come and see the place and give them a consulting report. 

Recently, the head of the Rio Organizing Committee asked the local clubs to report back on the possibility of holding the Games on one of their courses, so both clubs asked an architect to come take a look.  That's what I was doing there.  [I don't think the members really believed they should or could host the Games ... not just because the course is 6100 yards par 69, but because there is NO room for infrastructure or for large numbers of spectators.  But they were asked, so they wanted an honest assessment.] 

I really enjoyed the visit, and will probably continue to consult at the club in whatever capacity they need ... they have been rebuilding their greens a couple at a time, and there are still a few more to do.  Otherwise, I doubt there will be significant changes.

As for the future Olympic venue, Alex, there's not much I can tell you at this time.  The goal of the Organizing Committee is to host the entire Games within the city of Rio, and to put up 100% of the athletes in the new Olympic village ... that was a big part of their bid.  If they are going to stick to that goal, that would rule out playing one of the courses in Buzios, and make it 99% likely that they will have to build a new course to do it.

[astavrides]

There is an article in the new Golf magazine about a muni (first muni in Brazil?) that just got built about an hour outside of Rio.  I just skimmed the article at the newstand, but I don't think they mentioned the length of the course or mentioned it as a possible upgrade project for the olympics.  

[Chuck Brown]

Tony:

A friend of mine is on the board at Gavea.  He had been asking me for several years to make time to come and see the place and give them a consulting report. 

Recently, the head of the Rio Organizing Committee asked the local clubs to report back on the possibility of holding the Games on one of their courses, so both clubs asked an architect to come take a look.  That's what I was doing there.  [I don't think the members really believed they should or could host the Games ... not just because the course is 6100 yards par 69, but because there is NO room for infrastructure or for large numbers of spectators.  But they were asked, so they wanted an honest assessment.] 

I really enjoyed the visit, and will probably continue to consult at the club in whatever capacity they need ... they have been rebuilding their greens a couple at a time, and there are still a few more to do.  Otherwise, I doubt there will be significant changes.

As for the future Olympic venue, Alex, there's not much I can tell you at this time.  The goal of the Organizing Committee is to host the entire Games within the city of Rio, and to put up 100% of the athletes in the new Olympic village ... that was a big part of their bid.  If they are going to stick to that goal, that would rule out playing one of the courses in Buzios, and make it 99% likely that they will have to build a new course to do it.

I can see it now.... the Olympic Ball for golf...     

[Scott Weersing]

Tony:

A friend of mine is on the board at Gavea.  He had been asking me for several years to make time to come and see the place and give them a consulting report. 

Recently, the head of the Rio Organizing Committee asked the local clubs to report back on the possibility of holding the Games on one of their courses, so both clubs asked an architect to come take a look.  That's what I was doing there.  [I don't think the members really believed they should or could host the Games ... not just because the course is 6100 yards par 69, but because there is NO room for infrastructure or for large numbers of spectators.  But they were asked, so they wanted an honest assessment.] 

I really enjoyed the visit, and will probably continue to consult at the club in whatever capacity they need ... they have been rebuilding their greens a couple at a time, and there are still a few more to do.  Otherwise, I doubt there will be significant changes.

As for the future Olympic venue, Alex, there's not much I can tell you at this time.  The goal of the Organizing Committee is to host the entire Games within the city of Rio, and to put up 100% of the athletes in the new Olympic village ... that was a big part of their bid.  If they are going to stick to that goal, that would rule out playing one of the courses in Buzios, and make it 99% likely that they will have to build a new course to do it.

Since most of us have not been to Brazil, what are some of the differences you liked and disliked?

[Steve Strasheim]

Wow, a new course in Rio for the first ever golf olympics.

What a fantastic opportunity. Hope it isn't spoilt by politics.

[Carl Nichols]

I tried to play it about nine years ago, but it would have been in a monsoon (which was true for four straight days in Rio). It looked like a cool piece of property, like much of Rio.

[Tyler Kearns]

Tom,

Any remnants of Stanley Thompson's original design at Gavea?

TK

[Peter Zarlengo]

Tom,

Using the google planimeter to measure the golf holes, large road(s) that divide the course, driving range, clubhouse, and maintenance yard, it looks like the acreage of the property weighs in at just over 92 acres. Thats a tight squeeze for all of that, let alone the first Olympic golf event in the current era.

Are the 5 holes on the side of the road opposite the clubhouse newer than the rest? Did the road come in and force a realignment?

Those rock towers look pretty neat. And Ipanema Beach isn't far away, which can forgive a lot of whatever design flaws Gavea may or may not have.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I thought it looked pretty cool too. Thanks Tom.

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:

Yes, everybody should just go to Google Earth and take a look at it.  You can get vertigo just looking at the surrounding mountains once you've zoomed in fairly close to the golf course!

Tyler:

I was just looking through the club history book yesterday.  [It's in Portugese, but I can understand a fair amount of it, surprisingly.]  The course is actually not a Stanley Thompson design ... he consulted on it about ten years after it was designed by a transplanted Scot, Arthur Davidson, who came from Peterhead up near Cruden Bay.  Thompson made a few routing suggestions, only a couple of which were implemented ... the par-4 17th is his main contribution.  The majority of the routing is still Davidson's.

There were always five holes on the beach side of the road, while the rest of the course (including the clubhouse) was tucked into the mountains.  But about 25 years ago, the road was expanded into a major divided highway, and the club lost some ground in the process, forcing some routing changes.  The five holes on the beach side were redesigned by someone from Portugal, who brought in a bunch of fill and built an irrigation lake on that side.  Those holes really don't fit in well, and the club might try again one of these days, but the narrow dimensions of the site would make it difficult to change the routing there. 

The original first green and second tee were lost to the highway, so these were combined into a sharp dogleg par-5 around a big hill [now #3].  A small par-3 on the front was abandoned [though it is still there between #5 and #6, you just walk around it now], and two new holes were built in the old polo field [around a reduced practice range] to get back to 18.  Eating into the practice range also shortened the par-4 15th, which was one of the best holes ... the drive played over the corner of the range on a diagonal, and shots that didn't make it over the creek were o.b.  In total, the changes were unfortunate, but did not spoil the character of the course.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Tom,
That was sort of my point...many Americans that go to play Gavea or Itanhanga end up complaining because the conditioning is not up to American standards...thus the Brazilian comment.

I love Rio, lived there for a couple of yeras as a teenager, before I was really into golf, that is why I remember the food so fondly and the fact that they had a great football pitch!

[Tyler Kearns]

Tom,

Thanks for the updated course information, I will forward it to Ian Andrew, as I think the current Stanley Thompson course list has Gavea as a Thompson original, instead of a renovation.

TK