[Andrew Mitchell]

Andrew

I'll dig out the booklet and e-mail you some details. The course started out as Bradford St Andrews who then moved to a new site in I believe 1896/8 leaving Baildon the course. Old Tom designed the Bradford course. Also I believe that peter Crabtree one of the authors of Old Tom's latest book is a Members and lives close by.

I e-mail you some of the interesting pages relating to the early years, expect it will be tomorrow before you receive my mail.

All the best catch you tomorrow

Melvyn

Melvyn
Thanks for that.

For some reason the course plans did not show up on my office PC but I can see them at home

Still I'll look forward to seeing what else you've got

[Jeff_Mingay]

I sent an email to Chris about the Crooked Stick book a few months ago and received no response (!). Thanks for the reminder, Tom. I gotta get me a copy of his book.

[Jason Topp]

There should be many opportunities to create these over the next 20 years in the US with so many classic courses reaching the century mark. 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Two of my favourites are the Richard Latham's "Definitive Guide to Woodhall Spa" and also his "Definitive Guide to Royal County Down". Plenty of history of the courses, their designers, and the various changes made over time. Also they are very well illustrated.

I have both the Swinley Forest and Sunningdale historys in my library ready to be read, so I'll see how they match up. Also, the current thread discussing a Tom Morris book, mentions the Herbert Warren Wind awards and that Walton Heath's history "Heather and Heaven" won this a couple of years ago. I've not been able to read a copy, so can anyone comment on its award winning status>

Cheers,

James

I have both the Latham books and they are truly the history of the course rather than the Club, both excellently done.

I now avoid eBay as I find it irresitable to bid for a History of a Club laid out by one of our Old dead guys. Most have been a total waste of money for anyone whose parent wasn't a Club Champion in 1952 (grainy photo on page 30). IN most of them the research done has been to read through the minutes and invariably the local businessmen who formed the club took a greater interest in, and allowed a bigger budget for, the Clubhouse than they did for the course. Naturally most of the minutes reflect this. In addition most of writers have no feel for the changing times that they are writing about or the ability to pen something other than a memo. My new Years resolution is to stop wasting my time with them (all of above based on UK clubs).

Exceptions
Absolutely the best I've read is the Walton Heath one.  What a tale they have to tell about the powerful men (not all golfers) who thought a Golf Course would be a valuable addition to the area in which they'd bought so much land. And the Architect is most interesting to: Nepotism? Beautifully researched and written.

Other notble exceptions
Two by our own Mark Rowlinson. Alwoodley as mentioned above but I prefer his volume about Stockport where he shows us that the named architect  (the famous player Herd) was much less important in the development of the course than the Clubs Professional and Grounsdman Peter Barrie.  Outstanding research beautifully told. I'm really looking forward to his forthcoming  history of Sandy Lane.


Blackheath by Henderson and Stirk didn't dissapoint.  Indeed their research for this project into early contemporary clubs led them to discover how important Freemasonry was to these clubs and why so many now lack records - basically they didn't all have clubhouse fires that only destroyed the minutes while leaving buildings and the medals safe.


Honourable mentions to
Romford
Portrush
Rye
Woking  "A Temple of Golf"
St Georges HIll
Swinley
and a few others

Stinkers

The vast majority of them to numerous...

I also suspect more than a few are a little dishonest, glossing over how the club either butchered the origianal course over time or was unable to restore it after the damages couse by agriculture during the war.

I recently extracted from the Sutton Coldfield book how little of the course is now MacKenzie's but the book has only six chapters and one of them is entitled, The Leagcy of Dr MacKenzie.  (Frinton is similarly vague about changes to Colts course.)

As I've said on here before the Sunnigdale book is truly a piece of ++++ and one of the greatest missed opporutnites ever.  You'll have to look elsewhere for  info about what made this London's premier Club and how the courses developed. All IMO

[James Boon]

Two of my favourites are the Richard Latham's "Definitive Guide to Woodhall Spa" and also his "Definitive Guide to Royal County Down". Plenty of history of the courses, their designers, and the various changes made over time. Also they are very well illustrated.

I have both the Swinley Forest and Sunningdale historys in my library ready to be read, so I'll see how they match up. Also, the current thread discussing a Tom Morris book, mentions the Herbert Warren Wind awards and that Walton Heath's history "Heather and Heaven" won this a couple of years ago. I've not been able to read a copy, so can anyone comment on its award winning status>

Cheers,

James

I have both the Latham books and they are truly the history of the course rather than the Club, both excellently done.

I now avoid eBay as I find it irresitable to bid for a History of a Club laid out by one of our Old dead guys. Most have been a total waste of money for anyone whose parent wasn't a Club Champion in 1952 (grainy photo on page 30). IN most of them the research done has been to read through the minutes and invariably the local businessmen who formed the club took a greater interest in, and allowed a bigger budget for, the Clubhouse than they did for the course. Naturally most of the minutes reflect this. In addition most of writers have no feel for the changing times that they are writing about or the ability to pen something other than a memo. My new Years resolution is to stop wasting my time with them (all of above based on UK clubs).

Exceptions
Absolutely the best I've read is the Walton Heath one.  What a tale they have to tell about the powerful men (not all golfers) who thought a Golf Course would be a valuable addition to the area in which they'd bought so much land. And the Architect is most interesting to: Nepotism? Beautifully researched and written.

Other notble exceptions
Two by our own Mark Rowlinson. Alwoodley as mentioned above but I prefer his volume about Stockport where he shows us that the named architect  (the famous player Herd) was much less important in the development of the course than the Clubs Professional and Grounsdman Peter Barrie.  Outstanding research beautifully told. I'm really looking forward to his forthcoming  history of Sandy Lane.


Blackheath by Henderson and Stirk didn't dissapoint.  Indeed their research for this project into early contemporary clubs led them to discover how important Freemasonry was to these clubs and why so many now lack records - basically they didn't all have clubhouse fires that only destroyed the minutes while leaving buildings and the medals safe.


Honourable mentions to
Romford
Portrush
Rye
Woking  "A Temple of Golf"
St Georges HIll
Swinley
and a few others

Stinkers

The vast majority of them to numerous...

I also suspect more than a few are a little dishonest, glossing over how the club either butchered the origianal course over time or was unable to restore it after the damages couse by agriculture during the war.

I recently extracted from the Sutton Coldfield book how little of the course is now MacKenzie's but the book has only six chapters and one of them is entitled, The Leagcy of Dr MacKenzie.  (Frinton is similarly vague about changes to Colts course.)

As I've said on here before the Sunnigdale book is truly a piece of ++++ and one of the greatest missed opporutnites ever.  You'll have to look elsewhere for  info about what made this London's premier Club and how the courses developed. All IMO

Tony,

You make a good point that its the books that concentrate on the history of the course that tend to be more interesting than those on the club. I too have been dissapointed with several club histories, which hardly touched on the course...

Also, your point about the people writing these histories (not all of them obviously) having no real appreciation of the subject matter is confirmed by the Authors Introduction to a centenary history book of one of my favourite courses (I wont mention which), that I'm sure could have been so much more...
"I little thoughtwhen I set out on a Club outing to the Open early one July morning that before the day had ended I would have agreed to write the history of the first one hundred years... As an 'amateur' writer I did not appreciate the enormity of the task I had taken on! I have based this history on the Club minutes and information collected together by various people."
I think this introduction really tells us that though the author did a decent enough job, its a shame it wasn't given to someone with more expertise in the field of history writing!

Chris W,

The landscape format works well for me on the course histories. The two Latham Definitive Guides I mention earlier are both this format, as is Shacklford's Cypress Point book as well as the Prairie Dunes book you mention.

Cheers,

James

[James Boon]

Have they every done one at NGLA?

John,

George Bahto's "Evangelist of Golf" about CBM gives a very good description of the evolution and early history of the course, well to someone who has never been anywhere near Long Island it does anyway  . Worth looking out for!

Cheers,

James

[ChipOat]

I used to collect club histories and I think it's very hard to make them interesting to read unless a) there is a good deal of tournament history or, 2) in the unique cases of Pine Valley, National, Cypress, (maybe) Seminole and, (maybe) Dornoch, the course itself is uber-legendary.

Say what you want about ANGC, they've got a lot of stuff to write about that's important to golf.

I've read over 50 of them and, without good older pictures of the golf course, how interesting is it to read about dead club presidents that would, otherwise, never be mentioned in a book?  Or, for me, to look at pictures of a golf course you've never played?  Or, even if you've played Pebble, learn more than you ever wanted to know about the history of the Del Monte Real Estate Company?  With the exception of the above, I think they're written for a small percentage of the members and, since the birth of GCA, the small band of golf architecture aficionados.

I wouldn't want to have to write one that was expected to be a Pulitzer finalist.

[Chris Wirthwein]

Jeff -- Yikes...don't know what happened on missing your email. Apologies for the foul up. Hope my spam filter isn't snagging you. (Just joking.)

If you need to reach me, you can try again at chris@wirthwein.com. Or to order the book, go to my web site www.crookedstickbook.com.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Dale, if you e-mail me markrowlinson@btopenworld.com I can give you some thpoughtd and observations having now been involved in nine anniversary books.

[PThomas]

The book from The Golf Club is another nice one

[Dale Jackson]

My thanks to everyone who has offered advice and suggestions, you have all been of tremendous help.  To paraphrase many acknowledgements:  the book to be written will have benefitted from much sage informed and wise advice, the remaining errors, weaknesses and omissions shall be mine alone.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

We are very fortunate to have one of the best in Brad Klein as well as Rihc Goodale, Geoff and Tim that contribute here often. I know all but Tim well and hope they provide insite into the process. I know from my own clubs histories are easier said than done. Many members want the book to be tribute to them or family members etc. Some want to focus on social aspects or club life. It will be interesting to see their insite into what the process is to get to a balanced history of a club and for us the course.

[Jud_T]

Any Idea if "The Sacred Nine 1893-1993" is worth purchasing?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Here's an article on the very same,


http://www.britgolfcollectors.wyenet.co.uk/Club%20History.htm 

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