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Jack_Marr

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Developments at Carne
« on: December 08, 2009, 08:05:39 PM »
There seems to be some progress at Carne... Although I haven't heard anything about it.

Here are a couple of pictures - http://www.carnegolflinks.com/pdf/carne-news.pdf
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John Marr(inan)

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2009, 05:57:00 AM »
That 9th tee shot looks like a heart in mouth moment....
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Brian Phillips

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Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2009, 07:10:10 AM »
Bloody amazes me why EU countries keep using North American architects when there are so many other talented architects around, especially in Ireland that is suffering so badly at the moment.

Pump some of that money back into their own economy instead of sending it abroad... ???
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 07:25:04 AM »
Quote from: Brian Phillips on December 09, 2009, 07:10:10 AM
Bloody amazes me why EU countries keep using North American architects when there are so many other talented architects around, especially in Ireland that is suffering so badly at the moment.

Pump some of that money back into their own economy instead of sending it abroad... ???

Brian I've been told that Jim Engh is a member there and he's doing it with his pal Golf Pro, Bono.
Apparently the only team cheaper than Eddie Hackett. ;D
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 07:38:24 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
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Let's make GCA grate again!

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2009, 07:30:49 AM »
That is about as cheap as it comes I suppose...it is not good for the industry though, if Architects are doing Pro Bono work in foreign countries.
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2009, 08:09:14 AM »
I believe they did get quotes for it from some Irish architects, and they were way too high.

Also, I think at this stage, Jim Engh has only designed four or five of the new nine, because of committees etc.
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John Marr(inan)

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2009, 08:13:01 AM »
Quote from: Tony_Muldoon on December 09, 2009, 07:25:04 AM
Brian I've been told that Jim Engh is a member there and he's doing it with his pal Golf Pro, Bono.
Apparently the only team cheaper than Eddie Hackett. ;D

Tony, I misread that intially and thought that Jim Engh had joined U2 ;D
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Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 11:38:47 AM »
I suspect that when Jim Engh agreed to take on the project gratis, most others were involved in the Irish course boom?
I have always heard that Carne suffers from a lack of resources and since Jim is a member, I think its only natural that he would be involved.  Love the look of the holes Jack. Thanks for posting.
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Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 03:31:13 AM »
Hopefully there'll be more holes to go with these. I'll get out there after Christmas and see.
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John Marr(inan)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 04:56:07 AM »
The first picture is looking back towards the tee from behind the green, I guess.  That's the 10th fairway to the right.

They've certainly made a fair amount of progress since I was there in April.  The promise of a Jim's additional 9 was one of the main reasons why I stumped up for an overseas life membership.  If any of my GCA colleagues can coincide a visit with my annual trip, I'll be glad to see you there.  Jack, we'll dovetail there one day.

Brian.  You were a bit premature with your pop shot.  Jim's association with Carne is longstanding and there is no denying he is an exceptional architect, who is helping a club with precious little funds strive to achieve something momentous.  It doesn't matter what his nationality is. 
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Jack_Marr

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Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2009, 10:31:42 AM »
Robin

Certainly, I'd like that.

When I last asked them about the development, they said it was a long way away, so I was surprised to see this.

There's another excellent looking hole that will tee off between the 16th green and the 17th tee.

John
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John Marr(inan)

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 10:42:55 AM »
John

Yes, I think that will be a sensational hole.  The last hole will be tremendous too.

I consider myself pretty good at making sense of golf course routings in the construction stage, but I have to confess that I was completely puzzled by how this new 9 fits together when I walked the new holes in April.  They showed me a layout plan a couple of years ago, but it was a jumble of Jim Engh holes and committee holes, and I can't now remember how it all fitted together.

My thought was that they should combine the existing back nine and the Engh nine to make a new 18 and have the front nine as the supplementary loop.  It is far too squashed with the three opening holes lined up side by side in a space barely wide enough for two holes. 

I can't wait to give it a hit!
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2024: Royal St. David's; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (North), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 11:14:10 AM »
I played golf with Jim about 8 years ago.  He knew my father-in-law was heading to Ireland soon and called me about a month after our meeting to rave about Carne.  He told me anyone going to Ireland had to go check it out because it was so raw, so special.  Quite simply, Engh fell in love with the place at first sight.

He joined, as mentioned above, and the club made plans to work on an additional nine.  While one can say they should not hire an American architect when there are so many talented ones practicing in the British Isles, isn't it easier to argue that they should not hire a non-member when a member has the qualifications and wants the job?

Selling services is hard, I understand that.  It is interesting to see the comments about the process to get hired from those in the field.  Many industries are cutthroat and we all compete in a global marketplace.  Why should golf course design be any different?
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Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2009, 11:46:41 AM »
Quote from: Robin_Hiseman on December 11, 2009, 10:42:55 AM
John

Yes, I think that will be a sensational hole.  The last hole will be tremendous too.

I consider myself pretty good at making sense of golf course routings in the construction stage, but I have to confess that I was completely puzzled by how this new 9 fits together when I walked the new holes in April.  They showed me a layout plan a couple of years ago, but it was a jumble of Jim Engh holes and committee holes, and I can't now remember how it all fitted together.

My thought was that they should combine the existing back nine and the Engh nine to make a new 18 and have the front nine as the supplementary loop.  It is far too squashed with the three opening holes lined up side by side in a space barely wide enough for two holes. 

I can't wait to give it a hit!

Robin

Last you heard, did they have a development schedule?

I have yet to see all of the new nine. I'm always arriving late when I get there and it's nearly dark when I'm finished, as I'm coming from Dublin.
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John Marr(inan)

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2009, 11:49:44 AM »
Quote from: John_Conley on December 11, 2009, 11:14:10 AM
I played golf with Jim about 8 years ago.  He knew my father-in-law was heading to Ireland soon and called me about a month after our meeting to rave about Carne.  He told me anyone going to Ireland had to go check it out because it was so raw, so special.  Quite simply, Engh fell in love with the place at first sight.

He joined, as mentioned above, and the club made plans to work on an additional nine.  While one can say they should not hire an American architect when there are so many talented ones practicing in the British Isles, isn't it easier to argue that they should not hire a non-member when a member has the qualifications and wants the job?

Selling services is hard, I understand that.  It is interesting to see the comments about the process to get hired from those in the field.  Many industries are cutthroat and we all compete in a global marketplace.  Why should golf course design be any different?


John

I agree. If an Irish architect wanted to do this, he could have given a price that would make the job a runner for both sides. Irish architects should be able to quote lower prices too, as they're living in Ireland etc. And it strikes me that they should have been delighted to get such a project. New links are hard to come by.

I'm happy Jim Engh got the job. I'm sorry that it maybe didn't go as smoothly as he might have expected.
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John Marr(inan)

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2009, 12:58:19 PM »
Robin,

I may just have to start joining all the courses that I feel need renovating or redesigning to ensure that I get a shout!  ;D

I have nothing against Jim Engh and if he has been a member for years then good luck to the club.  The fee of an architect is just a small percentage of the construction cost so I hope everything went well on that side.

John,

Yes nearly every industry is cutthroat and there should be competition, I have no qualms against that at all.  Seriously, good luck to Jim and the club.

Jack,

How can an Irish Architect compete with a member doing it for free?
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2009, 03:42:01 PM »
Hi Brian

They could do it for free!

I think, but don't know for sure, that Christy Jnr gave a quote for the job, but it was very large. I don't know at which stage Jim was involved. So I don't think they were competing with Jim Engh to begin with.

John
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John Marr(inan)

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2009, 04:36:21 PM »
Christy Jnr ain't no architect....

Now if the club had gone to a real architect like one of my best friends Ronan Branigan they might have got a great Irish designer...
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2009, 03:27:46 AM »
Brian

Maybe you're right, but I really like some of the courses O'Connor has been involved with. I love Headfort New and Esker Hills, while Concra Wood is supposed to be really good. I always enjoy Mt. Wolselely too.

Not a fan of Citywest or PGA National, though.

John
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John Marr(inan)

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Developments at Carne
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2009, 02:04:14 PM »
Quote from: Robin_Hiseman on December 11, 2009, 04:56:07 AM
there is no denying he is an exceptional architect

This is open to debate.  I'm just relieved to see he didn't bring his symmetrical garbage and waterfalls to Carne.





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