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Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OSU Golf Club tops rankings
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2009, 10:15:21 AM »

Tommy Mac

Do you have evidence that the principal designer of Dr Mac's office had nothing to do with UofM?  If the map can be called an adverstisment, his name is clearly on both versions.  Was he a ghost designer?  Take a good look at the maps.  The Maxwell map has the far less bold bunkering pictured.  The map (after which I believe Dr Mac got involved properly) not only shows trademark Dr Mac bunkers, but also the very similar green style of CD's 7th is seen at UofM's 6th and to a lesser degree on the 14th.  Both of these holes along with #s 3, 4 & 5 were radically altered from the original Maxwell plan.  Though, it could be the case that Dr Mac used Maxwell's green-sites for #s 3 and 6.  There are also subtle changes in tee locations which alter angles and some 350 yards were added.  Of course it all could be coincidental, but it seems far fetched if you ask me.    

Ciao    

Sean
How do you prove a negative?

I damned near fell out of my chair.  Wasn't this what was being asked of the other side (Wilson's) on the Barker/Macdonald/et. al. vs. Wilson and committee brawl?

We were once reminded by a writer that critical acclaim and popular opinion or commercial success were very different things.  This was a poll of college coaches which could mean that they're rendering an opinion of the golf course as a competitive venue for golfers who play at a very high level.  That their concensus differ from the participants of this site who range from some very good golfers to a few who rarely play the game and never keep score shouldn't be a surprise.  The real question is whose opinions are most valid.  Those who see the courses where the game is played well or those whose best golf is played between their ears in the relative comfort of a soft recliner?  As Matt Ward reminds us from time-to-time, someone has to carry the water, and all opinions, regardless of how passionately they are held, aren't equal.  Scarlet is #1!   ;)




Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OSU Golf Club tops rankings
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2009, 02:09:36 PM »

Tommy Mac

Do you have evidence that the principal designer of Dr Mac's office had nothing to do with UofM?  If the map can be called an adverstisment, his name is clearly on both versions.  Was he a ghost designer?  Take a good look at the maps.  The Maxwell map has the far less bold bunkering pictured.  The map (after which I believe Dr Mac got involved properly) not only shows trademark Dr Mac bunkers, but also the very similar green style of CD's 7th is seen at UofM's 6th and to a lesser degree on the 14th.  Both of these holes along with #s 3, 4 & 5 were radically altered from the original Maxwell plan.  Though, it could be the case that Dr Mac used Maxwell's green-sites for #s 3 and 6.  There are also subtle changes in tee locations which alter angles and some 350 yards were added.  Of course it all could be coincidental, but it seems far fetched if you ask me.    

Ciao    

Sean
How do you prove a negative? Is there proof positive that Alison did not send his plans to Colt and he redid them all? No, but there is no evidence of Colt's involvement (other than lending his name), there is no record of him being on site, the plans are all in Alison's hand, Alison was the only one on site and the courses are in his distinct style. Viola, Alison courses. The very same factors are true with Maxwell & Michigan. Either you have proof (I'd take a tiny shred at this point) of Mackenzie's involvement or you don't.

I've looked at the maps. Those are not Mackenzie trademark bunkers IMO. Those bunkers look very much like the bunkers Maxwell built through much of his career. The islands of grass (found in several of Michigan's bunkers) were a distinctly Maxwellian feature. I will grant you the first drawing (assuming that is the first drawing; there is no date on it) is in a very basic style, in fact it looks like a 3rd grader did it, so it is very possible Mackenzie had some influence on Maxwell style. But that is speculation on my part, and the case you seem to be making is 100% speculative/circumstantial.

By the way Maxwell himself explained how he got the U of M commission and it had nothing to do with Mackenzie (according to Maxwell).

Tommy Mac

The fact that Dr Mac was the principal partner of his office, his name is on both maps and there are similarities both in bunkering and green styles with other Dr Mac holes is enough for me to conclude that he had something to do with UofM.  Whether or not you are on board with that opinion is neither here nor there for me because you have presented no evidence to suggest that Maxwell deserves sole design credit.  As always, I have an open mind in these matters, but I am not bothered enough to get into a long-winded debate over opinions. 

Ciao
Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

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