Venues of Sport

[wsmorrison]

Mike Sweeney,

Those supports do block some seats, but what old stadium doesn't have them?  Come on, that's no real detraction.

Paul,

It is hard to compare over so many years in between eras.  I saw Chamberlain play plenty of times and Jordan as well.  Chamberlain could do things no other man has ever done (I'm not even considering 20,000 women!)  What would Jordan's scoring average be without the 3-point play?  There were a fair number of good players in Jordan's day but it was also getting very thin.  The talent pool was shallow and diluted across how many more teams?  Come on, a lot of the guys were really minor league players.  As in baseball the depth of talent is evident and helps inflate some statistics.

           Chamberlain      Jordan

Years          14              15
Games         1045           1072
Min/game     45.8            38.3

In 1962 Chamberlain played every minute of every game including overtimes averaging 48.5 minutes per game

Rebounds     22.9            6.2
Assists        4.4              5.3

Chamberlain is the only center to ever lead the league in assists for a single season.

Chamberlain never fouled out of a game.  Never!  Not in rec league, jr. high, high school, college, pros-Globe Trotters or otherwise.

Points         30.1             30.1
MVP           4                  5

If they kept records of blocked shots, Chamberlain according to the NBA statistics guru would have averaged 10 blocks per game for a number of years and easily averaged 6 blocks per game for his career.

Chamberlains game highs of 100 points and 55 rebounds may never be broken.

I also believe that at some point during Chamberlain's career that offensive rebounds were not counted.

Number of championships cannot be equated.  That is a greater artifact of the team versus individual performance.  If that were the case, Bill Russell would be the greatest basketball player ever and Yogi Berra would be the greatest baseball player ever.  Neither is correct in my mind.  Although, I do think John Wooden is the greatest coach ever.

I sure would like to hear Lyn's take on this.  Billy Cunningham said to me that it wasn't even close.  Chamberlain!

[PThomas]

Wayne -I agree it is hard to compare eras....but I will try to just as you did!

Jordan may be the greatest performer ever in sports....if not the single greatest, certainly up there with Ruth, Nicklaus, Gretzky, etc (although even I will admit that the Bambino should have been EPSN's Athlete of the Century)..I can't imagine anyone has every come thru in as many pressure spots as he did.......everyone knew he would get the ball at the end - but he still usually came thru...this includes free throw shooting...I think he was at least 80%...Wilt's failure at this aspect of the game hurts his legacy just like Shaq:  a team might NOT give them the ball at crunch time cause they might get fouled and have to go to the line

I don't think his scoring average was inflated too much by three pointers...he didn't shoot a lot of them

I personally don't think minutes per game and the fact that he never fouled out is that important

IF you are correct in saying the talent pool was shallower for MJ, that might then cancel out the fact that Wilt had to be MUCH taller than 99.9% of his opponents

as for defense, MJ made the All-Defensive team a few times, I believe

sorry, MJ still gets my nod

[wsmorrison]

Very good point, Sean about the exclusionary practices.  It is not one I had made before.  Yet, when Chamberlain played, this was not an issue and had not been for several years.  There was a long history of blacks playing basketball in eastern cities.  I think there were superstars in every era but relatively speaking, there's a huge dillution effect with an 8 team league and a 32 team league.

I disagree very strongly with you regarding hockey.  There may be more scorers today but the goalie situation is embarassing.  There are too few quality goalies to support the league.  In my mind the scoring is definitely skewed as a result.  This is the NFL's biggest problem other than obesity on offensive and defensive lines.  There are simply too few quality quarterbacks.  The Eagles were right to draft McNabb over Williams.  Running backs are replaceable quaterbacks are a precious commodity.  Forget what a nut case Williams turned out to be.

Paul,

This is a fun discussion and we both know there are no real answers.  If you ask young people of course they say Jordan.  If you ask old people, they'll say Chamberlain (if they're not from Boston).  One advantage us old farts have is we've seen both.  I think the views of a Billy Cunningham, Lynn Shackelford (where are you?) and others close to the situation can judge best over the course of time would be a welcome perspective.  Chamberlain could not shoot foul shots.  That was his only weakness.  He had a great outside shot, especialy a turnaround jumper.  He had range, quickness, strength, height and overflowing talent.  Chamberlain's size relative to other centers is likely no different than Jordan's size versus other guards, especially point guards.  Likely Jordan's is probably much greater.  He loses point for that stupid tongue hanging out of his mouth  

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Re: Michigan State Spartan football, as the wise man once said, "Oh, No.  We suck again!"

[Kyle Harris]

Bump.

[Norbert P]

From wikipedia.com

Autzen Stadium   Eugene, Oregon   

. . . 

Crowd noise
 
 On October 27, 2007, during a 24–17 defeat of the USC Trojans, a record crowd of 59,277 fans was recorded at 127.2 decibels. A similarly-loud 31–27 upset of third-ranked Michigan in 2003 prompted a Michigan Daily columnist to write[6]

“ Autzen's 59,000 strong make the Big House collectively sound like a pathetic whimper. It’s louder than any place I’ve ever been, and that includes The Swamp at Florida, The Shoe in Columbus, and Death Valley at Louisiana State. Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die. ”

Michigan coach Lloyd Carr later said that Autzen Stadium was the loudest stadium he'd ever been in.[7]

In 2006, a Sporting News columnist named Autzen the most intimidating college football stadium in the nation.[8]

Lee Corso of ESPN College Gameday frequently says that; "Per person Autzen Stadium is the loudest stadium that I have ever been in my entire life!"[9]

Jahvid Best, a starting running back for the California Golden Bears said of his game in 2007 at Autzen Stadium, "The biggest thing I remember about that game is the crowd. The crowd noise is crazy up there. Honestly, any other away game I don't really even hear the crowd. Oregon was the only place where it really got on my nerves."[10]

As a head coach for the California Golden Bears, Jeff Tedford said, "Their fans are so educated that they're really prepared as far as when to make noise and when not to make noise. You can quiet some crowds down if you score early and things like that. Not in Autzen. They're going to keep roaring the whole game, that's just the way they are."edia.com