[Ulrich Mayring]

Perhaps. But my prediction is that in five years they'll bring in David Krause ;-)

Ulrich

[Christoph Meister]

I enjoyed the course profile.  I guess like Wentworth West, this is now only a "Colt/Morrison"  in routing.  The bunker redesign work is awful.

It seems that subtle work always has to be tarted up these days.   More contour, more mounding etc. 

The course had some historic significance as the company's first German project, starting with Colt visiting in 1927 .  I think that's correct Christoph?

Paul,

from what we  know at the moment you are right saying that Frankfurt-Niederrad was the first realized German project with Colt visiting in 1927, immediately followed by Aachen-Seffent and Stuttgart-Leonberg (NLE).

In Hamburg the discussion for an 18-hole started in Summer 1925 - So it might be there was a first visit of Colt in Germany as early as 1926...I have seen plans by Colt dated March 1928 for an extention of the existing 9-hole course at Hamburg-Flottbek, that was before it was decided to build a new course at Falkenstein, where work started in September 1928.

W.A. Murray might be the key figure getting contracts for Colt & Co. in Germany. Murray was working for Harris Brothers. In 1927 he was runner-up at the German Amateur Championship in Berlin-Wannsee. He probably came to Germany in 1924/25 where Harris Brothers were building the 18-hole course at Wannsee designed by Carnoustie-born C.S. Butchart 1913-1914 for the Olympic Golf Tournament at Berlin 1916 (!). The first world war put interrupted the project and the 1916 Olympic games were cancelled....

The golfcourse at Berlin-Wannsee was finally opened on May 3rd, 1926.

Butchart who left for the U.S. in 1921 was not available for any further course designs in Germany and this was probably how Colt & Co came into business in Germany.

Christoph

 

[Ulrich Mayring]

Christoph,

what do you know about those Harris brothers? Do they have anything to do with today's "Grupo Harris" or "Harris Group" that apparently build courses in Spain?

Ulrich

[Christoph Meister]

Frank,
I have no idea really but I don't think they did. I also don't think the greens pre-2007 were close to the original Colt greens, though.

Emil,

You might have a good point there and maybe von Limburger also redesigned some of the greens so that they were not original Colt-greens anymore anyway........but at the moment I only have prove for bunker restaurations and placements by von Limburger in preparation of the 1969 German Open Championship played at Frankfurt where von Limburger was commissioned to redesign Frankfurt Golf Course.

Im March 1969 he von Limburger writes in the German magazine "Golf" "that some of his old golfing friends from Frankfurt don't greet him any more as their golf balls are now often landing in one of the new fairway bunkers". Similar critisism was recived after von Limburger put the fairway bunker on 14 in Hamburg-Falkenstein some years before, "but today (1969) nobody is talking about this "wrong" fairway bunker any more."

And now comes the interesting part: "old golfers will soon learn that the time of the ordinary 0815 (as we call it in German) bunkers has long gone, where you would find a row of bunkers on the left side of the fairway for hooked shots and another row of bunkers on the right hand side of the fairway for sliced shots. Modern golf requires thinking and planning and today it is not sufficient just to place the golf ball somewhere on the fairway. The golf course at Frankfurt will have 30 bunkers less than before - but it won't play any easier - we will know for sure after the German Open this summer (1969 that is)."

It seems to me that like at Falkenstein the number of bunkers has increased slightly again at Frankfurt also during the latest redesign work

You didn't hear from me because I was and still I am digging in my archives about how Frankfurt Golf Course has changed since it was opened in summer 1929:

- the routing at Frankfurt has remained unchanged since 1930
- the course originally played over 6.035m at PAR 77 (Par was different in 1930 - holes 1,2,3,8,9 and 12 which today are PAR 4 holes originally  were PAR 5 holes in 1930
- in 1938 the course was lengthened to 6.225m at PAR 75 as the German Open Championship was played in Frankfurt for the first time(PAR distances changed from 1930 to 1938 with the steel shaft having taken over completely - Holes 1 and 8 became par 4 holes. btw it was Henry Cotton who won the 1938 German Open Championship
- in 1945 when the Americans took over the course during occupation the course remained unchanged in comparaison to 1938.
- in 1956 J.Morrison suggested some improvements and renovations after the course was taken back from the Americans on Jan. 1st, 1956
- in late 1968 Bernhard von Limburger was allowed to renovate Frankfurt-Niederrad. More than 30 original Colt bunkers were closed....

to be continued......

W.A.Murray playing out of a bunker at Frankfurt-Niederrad during the 1929 German Amateur Championship:

[Christoph Meister]

Emil,
thats interesting that you think the greens before the renovation weren't original anymore. Was that due to damge in WWII? Or were they renovated sometime ago (if so who was the architect? Frank Pennink? von Limburger?). Maybe Christoph can shed a light on this...

Emil & Frank,

It seems that during WWII a FLAK was stationed on the golf course and the course therefore was bombed by the Allied Air Forces. The house for the greenkeeping machines got destroyed during one of the air raids and there was certainly also damage to the golf course, even though it seems the clubhouse remained without major damage.

Interestingly a 1945 US Scorecard I have shows exactly the same distances for each hole as the 1938 scorecard - this of course wouldn't exclude greens were redesigned by the Americans or bunkers redesigned or changed - interestingly the Americans occupied the course from 1945 to 1955 and on January 1st, 1956 the course was given back to the Germans, in very bad shape though as it was reported in the German magazine Golf in 1956. In August 1956 the German Open returned to Frankfurt for the first time after WW II and after the course was given back to the Germans (The 1953 German Open was also played in Frankfurt, but the course was still in U.S. possession)...

Please find below pictures of Green No.16 from 1938 and 1956. Green No 16 was substantially altered by H.E.Gaertner in 1938. The hole was lengthened from an original mashie (iron 5/6) shot of 140m to 170m and a hill in front of the green which originally made it a blind but easy to play hole (you only had to play the ball onto the hill in front of the green and the ball then would run onto the green) was removed by Gaertner, who became a golf course architect in Germany after 1949 designing around 10 golf courses, some of them with J. Morrison...

Here are some pictures of hole No.16:

[Christoph Meister]

Christoph,

what do you know about those Harris brothers? Do they have anything to do with today's "Grupo Harris" or "Harris Group" that apparently build courses in Spain?

Ulrich

Ulrich

It was the English construction firm Frank Harris Brothers that built so many of these Colt courses - Alfonso Ehrhardt is also referring to them as they built several of the Colt designed courses in Spain during the 1920s:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38418.0/

I have read somewhere that the two firms you mention are not related to Frank Harris, but at the moment I can't recall where I read it....

[Ulrich Mayring]

Hi Christoph,

thanks a lot for posting these historical pictures. These bunkers look a lot more like classic Colt than today's versions. Certainly, some neglect is visible, but the substance seems to be vintage.

Ulrich

[Christoph Meister]

To all of you:

From reading in my 1956 German Open Programme I just found out that Morrison visited Frankfurt twice in 1956 and suggested changes and alterations to the course "I originally designed 28 years ago" (with Colt being dead by that time Harry could of course not tell anyone how much input he gave to the Frankfurt Golf Course). Some of the suggested alterations by Morrison were implemented in time for the 1956 German Open championship:

Hole 2   lengthened from from 400m to 455m playing as PAR 5 instead of a PAR 4 (new championship tee)
Hole 3   lengthened by 10m from 425m to 435m
Hole 12 shortened from 420 to 385 playing as a  PAR4 instead of PAR 5.
Hole 17   lengthened from from 410m to 465m playing as PAR 5 instead of a PAR 4
Hole 18   lengthened from from 410m to 430m playing as PAR 5 instead of a PAR 4 (new championship tee)

New bunkers were introduced on holes 2,9 and 18 according to suggestions by Morrison.

During the German Open 1956 the course played 6.330m (6.980 yards) at PAR 74 compared
to 6.225m (1938 and 1945) at PAR 72 (in 1945).

To be continued.....

Below you find a photo from Green No.15 showing the later 1956 German Open Champions Flory van Donck (Belgium) during the play-Off against Eric Brown. Also you'll find pictures from the 1st Green during the German Open 1938 and another one from the same Green during the German Open 1956  

[Tom MacWood]

Christoph is correct the firm was called Franks & Harris Bros., and was made up of GA Franks, Claud Harris and Norman Harris. WA Murray worked for the firm and worked very closely with Colt, Alison & Morrison. The golf architect John D. Harris was the son Claud or Norman, I forget which one. I'm not sure if his family continues in the golf business or not.

Christoph
Didn't Colt design the new nine at Berlin-Wansee in 1926?

[Christoph Meister]

Christoph is correct the firm was called Franks & Harris Bros., and was made up of GA Franks, Claud Harris and Norman Harris. WA Murray worked for the firm and worked very closely with Colt, Alison & Morrison. The golf architect John D. Harris was the son Claud or Norman, I forget which one. I'm not sure if his family continues in the golf business or not.

Christoph
Didn't Colt design the new nine at Berlin-Wansee in 1926?

Tom,

thanks for this addtional information on Franks & Harris Bros. - I think it was you who told me this allready some time ago.....John Dering Harris (1912-1977) worked together with C.K.Cotton after WWII and designed resp redesigned quite a few courses on the continent especially in France and Italy. I am also not sure what happened to John Harris practis, but maybe someone else here knows more....

Regarding Berlin you are right - Colt designed the third nine holes at Berlin-Wannsee, which are now part of the 18-hole championship course and which are not, as suggested in some other post on here, the extra nine-hole course.

Please find below the layout plans for Berlin-Wannsee 1927 and 1931 - it seems that some of the existing holes were changed or had to be changed in order to fit in the 18 + 9 -hole layout. At least from these plans you can see which holes were added by Colt around 1928-1930 (more exact date needs to be confirmed...):

[Christoph Meister]

I found additional interesting information regarding Frankfurt and how the course changed over the years in the 1956 German Open Programme:

"Today (1956) it (the golf course) shows a far more open aspect as considerable parts of timber were destroyed during war"

As an exemple the effect can be seen on the two photos I have enclosed showing the area around the clubhouse before 1939 and in 1952. All the trees between the first tee and the ninth green as well as those between the 9th and the 18th green have gone!

We surely do not need another war but as some posts here suggest some tree clearing would again to the course some good, this is also an impression one could get from looking at Ulrich's photos here....

C.

[Tony Ristola]

Hole 13: A crime. The only fairway Staedler had control of, and he built unnatural mounds completely out of character with the rest of the course. All the other fairways have natural, subtle, micro-undulations which present interesting shotmaking-decisions. I wonder how any architect could do that.

I was wondering how many would pick the loss of all the subtle contours on this hole.
The entire site ripples, and here there is was no effort spared to disguise the work done.

The bunkers in the 1939 photo are nice bold, clean lines. Dramatic at ground level I'd imagine.

As far as removing trees... they have a Forster, Forest Manager on site full time. Good Luck!
That said, the corridors were surprisingly roomy. Way bigger in scale than Falkenstein.

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