News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2017, 09:37:40 AM »

Those distance gains haven't carried over to this 62 year old amateur.......


I do recall following Jack Nicklaus when he played with that Golf Digest Contest Winner.  He went on and on about how he hits a 4 iron further now (this was 2004) than in his prime, but even some of his people whispered that he liked to ignore the extra inch of shaft length and fewer degrees of loft that essentially made it a 2 iron.


This study is a bit different in that it compares actual driving distance from then and now, not comparative clubs.  I know a few years ago I played La Costa with Steve Pate, and he was still only driving it 270-275.  Granted, sea level and cloudy, but I don't think he picked up much distance.


It's also interesting that he picked 1990 to compare, which is just a few years before the intro of the Pro V 1, which is where the biggest jump comes from.  John Daly was the first pro to average over 300 yards - and that was 1997.


Some other differences could be the harder fairways, as noted, easier course set up that encourages swinging for the fences, and my favorite, extreme club fitting which can really increase distance, especially roll.  That seems to be where most of the gains come from now days.

Jeff,
It is more than "interesting" that 1990 was the year picked for the comparison.  That was still very much the persimmon/balata era, and really predates much of the golf "boom" not only for equipment, but for more and better athletes playing the game.

The Titleist Professional came out in 1994, I believe.  Titanium drivers became more or less standard around 1996.  The ProV1 type golf ball comes along in 2000.  Somewhere in the midst of all of THAT, Tiger Woods demonstrates that fitness matters, and that hitting the ball a long way is a big deal.  Somewhere in the 200-2005 range, clubfitting goes to a new level with removable shafts and Trackman.

Every one of those things are critical to the process of hitting the ball farther, so a "study" that selects a few elite golfers that have stayed relatively active, fit, and competitive and compares their 1990 distances to their 2017 distances is sort of meaningless.  We all know that there have been distance gains over the last 30 years.  Selecting the subjects of a study AFTER the fact isn't the way research is done.  For instance, I'm 65 now, and playing the same golf courses that I played in 1990; I can absolutely guarantee you that I'm NOT hitting the ball farther than I did when I was 38!  How come I wasn't in this guy's "study"?  Fake news! :)

What might be more interesting would be to take those same guys and compare their distances in five year increments to get a feel for which of the developments in equipment had the biggest impact on each player.  Like everybody else on this board, I'd suspect that it would be the opportunity to hit a Pinnacle off the tee and a balata ball on the approach shot, but there is a synergy to all of this stuff even at that.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2017, 10:22:32 AM »
I know its been discussed before but couldn't they go to a 2" max tee length and immediately impact the high launch low spin? if these guys could no longer hit up at 6 deg they would produce backspin and limit at least the roll. The tee lobby can't be as powerful as the ball lobby.  Fred Ridley could implement the 'Masters Tee'.
Almost no one on tour hits up like that. Tour average is actually slightly down. Zach Johnson is +4 or +5, but he's an exception (and not a long hitter). Most are -2 to +2.

Kevin-
6 may be extreme but Rory recently responded to Chamblee on twitter with a trackman photo and he was +3.1, Justin Thomas posted a +5.1 deg and less than 2000 rpms with 120mph club head speed earlier this summer. Anybody hitting down is giving up lots of yards, why not make it harder to hit up?

Buck


The PGA Tour average attack angle is -1 degree, so I don't see any benefit to your tee height idea.

Is it the Tour Average that's the problem or the above average and way above average?

Compare Rahm +5.2 to Koepka -3.7--slower swing speed but has 18 yards more carry and +40 yards total (I know there are other variables but it fits my hypothesis so I'll go with it). The younger guys are all coming up maxing their swings on trackman so I think this is just going to get worse. Also look at the Tim Burke data ---he tees it a mile high and hits up at 7.9 with less than 2K rpm and his carry is 380 (140mph club speed helps).
https://blog.trackmangolf.com/category/tour-stats/
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2017, 01:35:16 PM »
Older men are always trying to recapture their youth. Don't believe a word when they say they are better than when they were 25.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2017, 02:01:49 PM »
John,


I don't know if you are deliberately trying to be obtuse here, but no one is claiming to be "better"..only that they hit it further at 55, than they did at 25. 


Posting a good score is a separate issue... although I would bet if Champions tour players went back and played the same courses from 30 years ago at same yardages from 30 years ago, with today's clubs, they would probably eviscerate their scores from back then....


John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2017, 02:06:34 PM »
No. I'm an old man that still hangs with other old men. I've heard it all and most of it is crap. When I was 42 nobody looked like Henry Stenson. We looked more like Jack. That's why we loved him.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2017, 02:09:42 PM »
Most senior high caliber athletes were not in the shape in 1985 that they are now. And that is discounting the coke and booze.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2017, 02:22:59 PM »
I am legitimately worried that those of us who have decided to sit back and enjoy our golden years are going to be punished for not going to the gym and creeping on young girls. Us fat alcoholics don't have that many years left. That should be sacrifice enough without also facing a roll back on what little distance we have left. If you look around you may notice we are the majority of the suckers left paying dues at the clubs everyone is so worried about.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Distance and age
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2017, 03:07:06 PM »
 8)  No relaxing, ... them golden years ain't what they're al cracked up to be!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"