[Alister Matheson]

Does anybody feel that a pot bunker in the face of the hill looks rank?  If ever there was an opportunity to create wild looking hazards this is it. 

As for the 3rd, it certainly goes uphill on the tee, but on balance, its a downhill hole.  Otherwise, very, very people would drive it.

Ciao

I think its easy to forget why the circular pot revetted bunker evolved on links courses it was to try minimise sand blow especially on more exposed areas of the course It might not look as fashionable as these reinvented lace edged or wild looking hazards  but serves its purpose.The 4th green is very exposed from north west and southerly wind directions and when from the east the green gets a lot of sand blow whistling up from the beach . 
The bunker you refer to imo does look rank as the shoulders are proud and its  too narrow from tee to green . Its getting rebuilt this winter.

All the best Ally

[Sean_A]

Does anybody feel that a pot bunker in the face of the hill looks rank?  If ever there was an opportunity to create wild looking hazards this is it. 

As for the 3rd, it certainly goes uphill on the tee, but on balance, its a downhill hole.  Otherwise, very, very people would drive it.

Ciao

I think its easy to forget why the circular pot revetted bunker evolved on links courses it was to try minimise sand blow especially on more exposed areas of the course It might not look as fashionable as these reinvented lace edged or wild looking hazards  but serves its purpose.The 4th green is very exposed from north west and southerly wind directions and when from the east the green gets a lot of sand blow whistling up from the beach . 
The bunker you refer to imo does look rank as the shoulders are proud and its  too narrow from tee to green . Its getting rebuilt this winter.

All the best Ally

Ally

Yes, I do agree that the first and foremost bunkers have to be functional which includes keeping sand in them when wind blows.  I also agree that a better job could have been made of this pot.  From my perspective, no single bunker on this hole will look right unless it is not so fussy as a pot for pots are best when they are tucked into folds and can't easily be seen until one is fairly close.  Which of course begs the question, does this hole, which I consider fairly difficult, need a bunker below the surface of the green?  I don't think a bunker enhances the hole in any way yet it does compromise the natural beauty of the hole.  That said, I would consider the exact opposite tack by placing at least one hidden bunker to the rear.  As the hole is now, the goal for most in the know is to get the ball to the safety of the rear of the green or beyond rather than fool with the bunker or steep fronting bank.  Clear the way in front of the green to make this an option hole of aerial or a very flat shot which will climb the bank and this really brings the natural hazard of the slope more into play.  Additionally, knowing there is (are) a rear bunker will encourage more folks to take on the bank as a real option.  Today, that is fools play with the combination of slope and a bunker working against the player. 

Ciao

[Andrew Mitchell]

I absolutely HAVE to play Cruden Bay before I go home! Maybe in conjunction with Rihc's THIS ABSOLUTELY IS NOT A BUDA event at Dornoch in May...

Thanks for the pics Anthony.

Scott
So many great courses to play...so little time.  When does the clock run out?

[Brian_Ewen]

I thought that bunker had just been moved and rebuilt by Frank Pont ?

[Kalen Braley]

3 begins the great part of course that is ruined by the mockerey of 15 and 16.

Does anyone have pics of 15 and 16?

[Andrew Mitchell]

Kalen

There are a couple of pics of 15 & 16 in Kyle's excellent photo tour
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40565.0/

[Frank Pont]

Brian, Ally is right the bunker shape isn't good (its is to narrow and to thin). It was rebuilt the winter before Ally started at Cruden, without me being present, and when I saw the result during my next visit I wasn't happy with the new bunker.

Kalen, for pics of 15 and 16 (sept 2005) see:
http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/Scotland/Cruden%20Bay%201/index_3.htm

[Kalen Braley]

Interesting,

Thanks guys.  It would seem those two holes add to the quirk of the place.  Really love that bathtub 14th green as well.

[Stan Dodd]

Kalen,
Play them a few times.  Some quirk is good, some is not. IMHO after approximately  20 plays.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm with Stan on 15.  Awful hole.  I don't mind 16 as much, though.

[Sean_A]

I'm with Stan on 15.  Awful hole.  I don't mind 16 as much, though.

I agree with Mark. 

Ciao

[Frank Pont]

Regarding hole 16: keep in mind that the entrance into that hole 16 over time has been raised by some 5 foot over time due to sand blown from the beach. When we renovated the entrance into 14 we also found that more than 3 foor of sand had been blown onup in this area.

Restoring the old situation by taking this sand of the entrance will make the hole both visible and more intersting to play. Some might even argue it will become a fair hole again 

[Brian_Ewen]

Frank
Whats the update on the new par 3 ?

I havent got up there this summer , is it in play yet ?

[RSLivingston_III]

I will never forget the first time I played this hole. At the time I thought it was the most intimidating 1-shotter I had ever seen.

OT- Why do a number of people seem to spell Rich , Rihc ?
An inside joke I missed?

[Frank Pont]

Brian, I haven't made it up to Cruden this summer either, to my chagrin! Too busy with building projects on the continent.

Last pictures I saw were earlier this summer (made by Ally), when the hole was starting to get a grown in look. His plan was to open the hole in September and have it played for a couple of weeks.

Maybe Ally can post some pics of the new hole, and tell us if it the hole has been in play already and what the playing results have been.

Keep in mind that the green was designed to have the potential to be played from two different directions; in its the current form it plays as a medium length par 3 down to the beach from a higher tee, but the better and more beautiful hole will be created if we can ever play it as a long par 3 along the beach. This last option hinges on the club acquiring the land, which has proven difficult sofar.

[Brian_Ewen]

Thanks Frank (apologies for not directing the question to Ally)

If the land was aquired , would the 12th also be extended ?

[Rich Goodale]

OT- Why do a number of people seem to spell Rich , Rihc ?
An inside joke I missed?

Hi Ralph

I am prone to "tyops" (copyright 2003, Richard Farnsworth Goodale, all rights reserved), and some not so bright spark on this board thought that it would be amusing to call me "Rihc" (or "Rhic" or "Rcih") some time ago.....  This was amusing for a week or so, but has not been for many years, at least to me.  It's one of the many outrageous slings and fortunes I have to bear on this board, but I tend to ignore the ignorant ones who continue to perpetuate this childish prank.

Slainte

Rich

[Brian Phillips]

Rihc,

When you went through a phase of typing so fast that you even spelt your name wrong it was then it stuck.

[Rich Goodale]

Rihc,

When you went through a phase of typing so fast that you even spelt your name wrong it was then it stuck.

Yes, Brain, but it stuck only in the minds of the mindless...

[Doug Wright]

Rihc,

When you went through a phase of typing so fast that you even spelt your name wrong it was then it stuck.

Yes, Brain, but it stuck only in the minds of the mindless...

Mindless? I've been called worse and Rihc so have you...

CB #4 is an excellent par 3, one of the best holes on the course and IMO one of the better par 3s I've played in Scotland. Regarding the new par 3 on the beach, I've heard from a member that the hole isn't being used. That seems odd. This member wasn't a fan of the hole either, though I think it had more to do with the process by which the hole came about than its architectural merit. 

[Niall C]

The new hole looks much better played along the beach, it really does look excellent. I can imagine the wind coming off the beach and having to hit along the OB line to allow the wind to bring it back. Played the other way I wouldn't want to be playing anything more than a 8 iron and even then it doesn't look that enticing to me, especially with the wind behind.

I've only played the course once and was so let down by most of the holes after 8. The par 3 11th (?) was a standout exception but the sequence starting with the par 5 with the green behind the mound, followed by the bathtub green, followed by two par 3's (all as I remember it) just left me feeling so deflated. Just too much quirk, and I was born and raised in the land of quirky golf ! As someone else pointed out being quirky doesn't make it good.

So the thought a new 13th might allow the rubbish (IMHO) sequence that follows to be broken up/re-arranged/demolished/redesigned/Trumped or whatever sounds like a great idea. Can't wait to hear of the plans.

Niall

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